Minority Report v Millwall

I'm enjoying the results, the league table, the work rate, the physicality, the goals, the defending, the team spirit, and even the manager's use of subs.

I'm not enjoying the style of football. I find it incredibly frustrating to watch, although taking each game overall, I find myself - like @Jay - completely entertained. It's weird, and I can't begin to explain it. It's not the style of football I want to see, but it works, and in doing so, it will do for me for the time being. I'm not sure how fans in a stadium will react to it, though.

 

I was at Selhurst Park under Keith Hill , i was sat with the Pallace fans in the home end they were creaming at the possession and way we played it out of defence I can't remember one attempt on goal we lost in injury time.
Today I didn't enjoy the first 45 minutes the second half the manager had foresight to see the problem and made changes,we got an ugly win and without doubt it was so much more enjoyable than the cold Tuesday night at Selhurst Park albeit where RR would love the way Keith Hill had us playing.
I am ecstactic in the way this manager has turned around our fortunes,not always with pretty football however enjoy the ride as the play offs are now looking more achievable than before he arrived.
How can anyone pick negatives out at the moment is unbeleivable but remember this is BFC .
Up the reds .
Ps the big boys up front I have been begging for ages.

 

I enjoy the posts. Taking up a minority position is always going to leave you with critics. If you can't live with that, then maybe you are wise to refrain.

 

Minority Report was initially reported to be a tactical analysis, pitched at only the posters who have the ability to critically think - and not the likes of your average thicko fans who just want to be entertained.

It made sweeping but to be fair often quite accurate assessments as to why the tactical approaches Barnsley made did not lead to winning games. The reports carried on doing so into this season, when RR decided we could never make any success of playing 3-4-3 and stuck to it.

In the face of ever improving results, Minority Report ceased to be a tactical critique, and became about what Red Rain did or didn’t find entertaining. A complete about-turn, and somewhat hypocritical given a lot of what had gone before.

The old posts were generally high handed, at the very least condescending, but were essentially based around the tactics used and why they weren’t working. Minority Report seemed to flourish when the team wasn’t. By design.

The posts became less condescending when he became who the posts used to speak down to - namely a fan who wanted to see pretty football and be entertained.

For this reason, I came to the conclusion that the raison d’etre for Minority Report was no longer (and possibly never was) to offer an alternative view with in depth analysis, but was actually just provocative propaganda, and written primarily to draw attention and probably start conflict.

The flouncing off on this thread smacks of both further attention seeking, and also that it is becoming increasingly difficult to come up with the incendiary material as the raw facts are that the team has won five on the bounce, are unbeaten in seven; we are joint top with Cardiff in the form league, we are one point off the playoff positions with a game in hand and have found a way to play against any side we face, however they setup and want to play - including Chelsea - to give us a chance of getting the results. It has become difficult to criticise hence difficult to start the argument.

Red Rain has many defenders on here, I’m not 100% sure why as most or all of them acknowledge his high handedness, and i’m sure all have seen his total 180 turn on why he claims to write the posts unless they didn’t read his earlier iterations.

The OP has regularly complained about being singled out and bullied, though whilst I have seen a lot of barbs back, offering some myself, I have seen little evidence of bullying - and he singled himself out from other posters in using his air of superiority. These accusations were thrown around whilst never once acknowledging any of the dozens of posters who, initially very politely (though eventually in increasingly stronger terms) pointed out the tone of superiority used, the accusations were made without ever accepting this was even partly the case. Essentially, never felt he’d ever done anything to upset anyone and everyone was picking on him.

He almost became the new Young Nudger or Hemsworth Tyke - by which I mean in his own mind he was a speaker of only logic and reason, superior to most of the likes of us, apparently thriving on the attention and conflict.

I will miss the posts and the threads they create. Even if I didn’t always agree with the posts, there are always plenty of alternative views offered and it is nice to see how fellow fans see the game differently to how you do.

So I hope at the very least that there will be an alternative home for these differing views and critiques in the upcoming games, until such time that Red Rain returns. Which I hope he does - as despite all I’ve said I don’t think he’s really causing any harm or doing too much massively wrong legally or morally speaking; as frustrating as the posts sometimes are, they generate interest and do not go down a sinister road of any form of sexism, racism, bigotry or anything else completely abhorrent as some WUMs who went before were guilty of. So I’d like the posts to continue, or at least come back after this self-imposed break.

Thankfully in this regard, inevitably we’ll lose a couple eventually, and all will be sufficiently woeful for the MR to bite back.

 

I enjoy Minority Report. I see @Red Rain as a theoretical Leader of the Opposition at Prime Ministers Questions in a world where the Prime Minister is actually doing a good job. Keeps your feet on the ground and can sometimes give you something to think about. I personally don't mind our style of play, but I like reading anything BFC related that's had some thought put into it. I understand disagreeing, just not sure I understand how spicy people are getting over it.

 

To achieve the results we are doing at the moment while also playing beautiful flowing football would involve significant expenditure on the team. That is something Red Rain has railed against frequently, preferring solvency as a football club. Anyone who has suggested modest expenditure on the team has been derided as wanting to bankrupt the club or chase the Premier League dream. The truth is of course that there is a middle way. It seems to me that this season the club has edged towards that middle way, and success has followed. Complaining that that doesn't leave enough of the aesthetics to over-elaborately analyse is putting the kaht before the 'orse, so to speak!

 

Fully agree. We don't have the players to play beautiful football and our current system is letting us compete within our budget.
Sometimes the style is not too bad but more often I find it hard to watch and yesterday we never even attempted to play football.
As a short to medium term means to an end I can put up with it and enjoy where it's taking us but it's certainly not like watching Brazil.

 

I do share your frustration on this one point.

However, I think you have previously recognised that some part of this strategy is to do with retaining the defensive shape of the team in the event of losing possession.

This isn’t to do with SPECIFIC formations though. Even if VI opted for a different formation, he would still feel the same way about preserving the shape.

If Mowatt tries the pass (and it is intercepted), we potentially have players out of position - as happened with the late goal scored by Blackburn.

I would go so far as to say that VI would rather keep the shape of the team than keep the ball.

Personally, I have been crying out for a more pragmatic coach, so VI certainly ticks those boxes.

 

It was the daftest tactic I’ve ever seen, even worse than playing JCR as a sweeper.

 

I like any football as long as it’s played with the intent to attack and score goals, which this team does undoubtedly. If this was the style but playing for 1-0 wins nicking a goal from a set piece I’d be less entertained. I can’t remember the last time we were hanging on at the end of the game with our backs to the wall, the second goal against Stoke proves that we carry on going forward.

 

Our ability to see out a match when we're winning is unprecedented in my time watching Barnsley.

We don't retreat into the final third. Midfielders don't become defenders, forwards don't become midfielders, we retain the shape that has served us well in the rest of the game. We may head for the corner flag rather than the goal but that is the only concession we make.

We never look under pressure during this period, it's never backs to the wall, and we tend to look far more likely to score than concede. Undoubtedly this is helped by the fitness of the squad, the masterful use of substitutions, and that our style has worn the opposition out. They've run out of puff and run out of ideas.

What's not to celebrate about such tactics.

 

All very good points Jay which I wholeheartedly agree with but you’ve failed to mention my lucky red n white stripy socks,

 

Spot

Spot on how i feel!

 

Oh for the love of God. I'd just got that image out of my head!

 

Sorry mate

 

Just no photos PLEASE

 

I get it completely about the style. If this was any other side I'd probably turn the telly off.

Fundamentally though, I don't watch us to be entertained. I want us to succeed. I want us to win. I want us to inject some pride back into a place that's severely lacking much to be proud of and he/they are doing that.

I'd watch this all day and pay good money to do so if he makes us successful. The first time since Robins where someone has shown leadership & created a style that suits the context & I f.cking love him for it.

Pragmatic wins are better than principled losses.

 

I’m pretty sure it’s my lucky BFC sweatshirt from the 2016-17 season.

 

I have some sympathy with your position on style over results, at the minute as results are going well and we aren't in the ground, we can overlook the aesthetics of the game and concentrate on the expedience of getting results. It seems obvious - who cares how we are playing as long as we are winning? But there are other aspects to look at with the consequences of this approach - the type of player we need at the club - we need fit, tall, strong players who'll do as they are told - there's no room for Hignett or Hammill in our current team in my opinion - does that detract something from our identity? A valid question, even if you are one of those who don't care as long as we are winning.
Personally I have mixed feelings, I can see that in the past this plan can work for teams who cannot compete money wise with their rivals - Tony Pullis kept Stoke in the premier league playing a style of football which rejected the idea of possession football and looked to get the ball forward with a minimum of fuss, same with Bolton under big Sam. Whatever you think of our current tremendous run, you cannot deny we have taken the same approach but with the updated version of the press - so our game plan is this - "create chances while minimising the risks of conceding chances to the opposition" - so don't give the ball away in your final 1/3 of the pitch while pressing the opposition to give up possession in their final 1/3 - holding possession then in your 1/3 of the pitch is dangerous and the only point of it in the middle 1/3 is to get it into the oppositions 1/3 as quickly as possible - there is no value in moving the ball back into your 1/3 of the pitch to rebuild in possession as this invites mistakes and chances for the opposition. Knowing that we see;
1) an emphasis on set pieces create chances - anything which gets the ball into the opposition box is an opportunity to score, so set pieces are crucial - like yesterday.
2) No value in retention of possession in your 1/3, even 1/2 of the pitch as its an opportunity to make mistakes and give chances.
3) squeeze the space in the middle of the pitch to reduce the area the game can be played in and thus make it easier to press the ball and swarm the opposition.
4) try and win possession in the oppositions 1/3 of the pitch to create chances, giving up possession for territory is fine, in-fact is preferred in order to flip point 2 on the opposition and take chances from their mistakes.

This is a brutally practical utilitarian way of playing, that's a fact. But in the past we've been done by many teams playing a similar, if not quite so extreme form of this idea - were we've retained possession under the impression that we will gain chances and score, while teams have just bullied us on set pieces and long balls - only a few teams have truly come to oakwell who have outplayed us at football - I remember Fulham from a couple of season back being one that really sticks in my mind - and the reason it does is because it doesn't happen that often. At this level most teams aren't trying to play total football, they're just trying to win games however they can.
So, yes, we have not only joined the majority of teams in philosophy, we have gone beyond it and taken it to its logical conclusion. There is plenty to get your teeth into in my opinion and I think RR does himself no favours then by claiming because of this situation there is no point in him continuing. Better to stay with it and try and at least see the practical consequences of these decisions as being as equally a valid position as decrying the lack of style in getting there.

 

Getting to 50 points at this stage of the season is a tremendous achievement and full credit to all concerned including the owners, i personally thought we played football under stendel and struber that was far better on the eye than we,re currently playing, BUT the way things have panned out proves to me that silky possession football doesn,t work for us in the championship and i,ll take the current style all day long if it means not being in an annual relegation scrap, i do however think that we sometimes take the long ball thing too literally and theres been numerous occasions this season that we,ve seen the long ball hit automatically whether it be the centre backs or the midfielders to absolutely nobody, without even looking up, the commentators touched on it yesterday, there are times when we just need to calm down and get a foot on it otherwise all we succeed in doing is surrendering possession very cheaply and inviting pressure...