While you enjoy ...

It does seem now more and more blatant the targeting. They said the other day that pubs won't be able to take payment indoors - which is a problem in rural areas where there's poor network signal. I presume this means that clothes shops and supermarkets need to move their tills outdoors otherwise they won't be "safe" either?

 

I would be interested to see some scientific quotes on how well masks have worked indoors to stop covid infections and also how good/bad they are for the environment.

You sort of miss the point I was making to try make out that I'm ridiculing people for wearing masks outdoors, this isn't the case I just don't see the logic especially while exercising but each to there own.

 

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/uk-weather-arctic-blast-to-23866075

Think of how many pubs will be running at a loss because the weather isn't what you want to sit outside having a cold drink in.

 

Opinion is opinion. Facts are facts. I'm happy to hold my opinions, but they are just that. What you have had to say so far has not persuaded me to change my opinion, which is that the government's cautious reopening is probably the right way to go. I'm not attempting to change your opinion.

 

I hate this description with a passion, which the Government have successfully brought into the vocabulary of the media and the population.

Glacially slow reopening is not cautious at all, it is the opposite, it is wildly reckless and irresponsible. Every day that schools were closed longer than was absolutely necessary meant children going without proper education, or in some extreme cases going hungry or being physically or sexually abused and lacking the checks and balances to identify this. Every day that businesses are unnecessarily closed means someone's life's work going to the wall. Every day that the 3million excluded from help are prevented from doing a days work means families having to find food from foodbanks.

So I hate the description "cautious". It's utterly reckless to have restrictions in place one day longer than is absolutely necessary.

 

So you would argue that they are being too cautious?

 

No, I would argue they are acting recklessly by being utterly blinkered to the harms caused by lockdown and only considering the (perceived) benefits into their decision making.

A cautious approach would be to take a balanced view of the harms versus benefits and act accordingly. This clearly has not been done through the duration of all this.

 

If you don't see the point, fine. Its your liberty if its legal. Others do. So don't insinuate and denigrate them for their choice by repeatedly trying to suggest their is no logic or reason, even though there is.

 

The lowest level of 7-day rolling average cases was in the first week of July (572.6 on 1/7). By the start of August that had increased to 826.6 (a rise of ~44%) and 2180.6 by 1/9 (~150%). Irrespective of what anyone told you, the R rate must have been above 1 for that entire period - significantly so during August (If R was below 1, cases would fall). Education was also closed for most of July and the entirety of August so the rise in that period was down to other factors - shopping, hospitality, work, leisure, etc. Pubs opened at the start of July, but many people will have been eating/drinking outside in the warmer weather, but that will have changed in August with EOTHO. It wouldn't just have been pubs/restaurants, but there is an argument that a pub is less important to the economy that a factory or office.

Don't get me wrong, when schools/universities went back in September it lit the blue touch paper and cases shot up further 5x in September, but when you look at the numbers you cannot argue that the exponential growth didn't start in early July.

Incidentally, the 7-day rolling average of cases *now* is very nearly double that at the start of September - 3992 on 29th March which is the latest full data on https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases

As for the comment about glasses, etc. You don't chug your drink down in 10 seconds as soon as the barperson hands it over. You generally savour it slowly over maybe 30-60 mins, with it exposed to the atmosphere during that period. The same with your food. It is exposed to the atmosphere for 10-15 mins while you eat it, and any virus particles that land on it are taken straight into your mouth. In a supermarket, you (should) wash your hands on entry and have a mask on at all times. You can also wash your hands on exit before removing the mask. Not everyone follows the rules, but that is what is in place. Coverings over glasses/bottles might help in pubs, but not everyone wants to drink a pint through a straw!

Again, this is just a theory. It might not be correct. I'm sure some scientists somewhere are testing the scenarios out to confirm that and we'll see the evidence presented in the near future.

 

Cases increased by ~44% in July (570-870), and ~150% in August (870-2180). That is exponential growth by any definition. The rate of growth increased as the active cases increased, as it was always going to unchecked.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases

 

I've looked at that and whilst I agree the figures I am questioning my understanding of exponential. I think it is the increase in rate over a period of time expressed as a power of. So something is either x2 or x3. If I'm wrong then I withdraw as I'm really not sure.

Also the cases increase in August didn't really take off until the back end of the month.

 

When hospitality re opens no one is forcing people to go against their will. When they re opened last summer some people would only sit outside as they were still unsure as to safety but wanted to socialise, others were happy to sit inside....this should still be down to personal choice, just like going to non essential retail or anywhere else for that matter.

I, for one, will be much happier when they are open inside as I've never been one for beer gardens regardless of the weather, and the things in place for inside ( screens, distancing, handwash etc) were good enough for me to be happy last summer so will be good enough this time round especially with the vaccine rates.

And yes I will be at my local next week (for my own sanity , I need to see my drinking buddies and mates....depression is ****), and, yes, I will be getting p155ed

 

Enjoy!

 

https://www.ihrsa.org/improve-your-club/safety-efficacy-of-masks-face-coverings-during-exercise/#

The WHO (World Health Organization) does not recommend wearing a mask during exercise because it can make breathing more difficult. Additionally, sweat can make the mask wet, which impacts breathing and promotes the growth of microorganisms.