Local elections - abandon hope.

Saudi Paul? Guy’s a scumbag. I’m sure the Tory candidate is as well. Would you like to be Burnt or Scalded Sir? Either way the status quo remains, FPTP is awful.

I’ll be voting TUSC in the locals Thursday knowing it’s a complete waste of time. System needs a complete overhaul but it’ll never happen.

 

I'm afraid that Labour will get a real battering all over the place on Thursday and certainly lose Hartlepool. The Labour vote around the UK in 'traditional' areas has been in decline for a long while now. Look at Scotland for example. There has been a significant shift in attitude in old industrial areas over the last 30/40 years and Labour has been complacent about it. The party is losing traditional working-class supporters who are tending to move to either nationalist parties or the Tories. There was a halt in this decline in 2017 when many went back to Labour's socialist vision under Corbyn but it picked up again in 2019 after a complete tactical balls up over Brexit. Unless Labour has strong, visionary economic policies it will continue to decline in my opinion. The mistake I suspect Labour will make is to try and mimic the Tories on patriotism at the expense of showing people there is a genuine alternative. 2017 showed that there is an appetite for left-wing democratic socialism but again I suspect the Labour hierarchy have bottled it because of 2019. They should stick to their guns. Corbyn was not the right individual to lead Labour. He had some good policies but as an individual he was too easy to attack. Good socialist policies with a good, media savvy leader would start to cut through to people I think then all this tub-thumping support for the lying clown would become, after covid, irrelevant. Labour needs to go back to its real values and show it will genuinely do something for people. Mirroring the Tories and waving flags wont work.
Just my views of course

 

If Hartlepool vote Tory on the presumption they are getting 180,000 well-paid jobs as its been said by cabinet ministers then they must be crazy as the population of Hartlepool 90,000

 

In a nutshell.

Labour at local & national level have to improve their policies (or get some) and their messaging other than 'reasons'.

Voters are thick apparently for not sharing certain views - on the contrary, voters have never been bombarded with political messaging as much as they have in the current age of social media & 24hr rolling news. Perhaps that's shown that on the main issues of economics, international policy etc that there's nothing really between the 2 main parties other than a % point on tax or a couple of million on the NHS for example. Activists in both parties may see themselves as very different to each other but on a macro level - would it really make any difference to who's in ?

Both main parties imho will fragment anyway - once this ******* idiot in no10 is dispensed with then they'll implode - as will Labour because Keir isn't a leader. Not sure what he is really.

Labour had a leader who got people & the effect that national policies had - but the centrist media wouldn't allow that and the absolute **** bags in his own party wouldn't either. Whilst ever the 'establishment' is happy with things generally as they are currently then there'll be no meaningful political party of any view other than pro gobalist, consumerism led society able to get a foothold - which is dangerous because that will just fuel extremists on both sides.

But keep shouting at folk who've had decades of being shat on, that'll get Labour in - guaranteed.

 

Love how people say the electorate are thick and brainless when it comes to politics. The vast majority of the electorate including myself and most on this BBS do not vote tory so why lob out the insults at everyone. The working class tory voters is one thing I can't get my head around but even they will have their priorities which are important to them. I always vote labour in national elections but local elections, even in Barnsley, are wide open. I tend to read each candidate's portfolio and make my.mind up from that. We've had good labour councillors but also some who've enjoyed the favourable expenses rather than done much for the community. In local elections, I never vote right but in the past have voted Ratepayer, Lib Dem, Labour, Green and Independent. If that makes me thick and brainless maybe I should pack in posting on political threads.

 

I think you're wrongly using the bbs as a representation of the electorate in general. If you want that I'd suggest a comparison with facebook and twatter.
There's a very significant section of the general public who do not look for their information beyond what they read on there, in The Sun and the Mail and in Heat magazine.

 

I agree with that, but what did everyone use before Facebook and Twitter? They got all their opinions and information from the newspapers, from their work colleagues and their mates down the pub. That was when a two party system worked, because you either picked one or the other, and you trusted that voting for the Labour Party was in the interest of the working class man.
Now the working class man has a vested interest in the status quo and there is a pervading "I'm alright Jack" attitude throughout society. Poverty levels in this country have remained between 21 and 24% since 1994 regardless of who has been in power.

 

I'd suggest that Facebook and Twatter, Tik Tok, Love Island etc also do not represent the electorate in general. What I said in my opening sentence is that the majority of the electorate did not vote for Boris, 54% I believe, so to class everyone as brainless and thick is way over the top. We all know not so bright people and idiots but in my opinion the majority of people are good and hard working individuals. Anyway it's a moot point because I agree with your sentiments about this government but don't like the generalisation given everyone is part of the generalisation.

 

I agree with some of that, but I do disagree with the assertion 2017 was some resurgence of socialism under a dynamic leader.

The context of 2017 was a real surge to try and stop brexit and the only real option was labour, even though Corbyn was against EU membership and made a right hash of the campaign. So many people I know held their nose and voted for Corbyn in the hope Brexit might be made something palatable or reversed, even if the messaging of Labour was all over the shop. Yes, as some have said on here, some were motivated by what Corbyn had to say, but very many millions more wanted to just put the brakes on, and given May had an absolute shocker of a campaign, several factors went toward assisting Corbyn capture more popular vote, though it was still an exceptionally weak representation of that vote into electoral seats.

 

What difference would it make? If they put up a Labour Leave candidate, Leavers wouldn't vote for them because 'Labour = Remain'. When the red wall seats fell, it didn't matter whether the actual Labour candidate was Remain or Leave.

 

Aldus Huxley….

“The masses are incapable of abstract thinking and uninterested in any fact outside the circle of their immediate experience. Their behaviour is determined, not by knowledge and reason, but by feelings and unconscious drives. To be successful a propagandist must learn how to manipulate these instincts and emotions.
Dictators rely for the most part on repetition, suppression and rationalization -- the repetition of catchwords which they wish to be accepted as true, the suppression of facts which they wish to be ignored, the arousal and rationalization of passions which may be used in the interests of the Party or the State.”

Take back control. Oven Ready Deal. Get Brexit Done. Build Back Better.

 

Just had a nosey a the Police Commissioner Candidates:

Candidate 1 - Former Parish Priest and Academic
Candidate 2 - Current councillor in Sheffield, no information about previous occupation
Candidate 3 - Former Police Superintendent with 30 years experience

Which do we think will get voted in?

 

There's been plenty of bashing for Starmer in this thread. I get why - he's certainly not inspired people so far.

But I really do think that he's slowly starting to turn the ship around. We're seeing more of him, and now that the worst of brexit and the pandemic might be over there's room for politics to properly resume. He's started to outline his vision, he just needs to get this across to the public. His PR has been terrible so far so that needs to improve - it's soundbites and social media that wins elections now.

As someone posted above:
https://labour.org.uk/issue/labours-plan-for-the-recovery/

He's not as far left as I'd presonally like, but I think a centre left platform is the only one that can win an election for Labour in the current climate.

 

It correlates very strongly with age

 

I'd say 21% and 23% for the lower two age bands can be constituted as plenty.

 

Don't forget, that graphic shows groups by age, but the age ranges are not equivalent.
The group should really be 18-29 in line with the other groups which would show just one group with more than 50% voting for Labour.

 

I don't agree. You said plenty voted based on his character, and I wouldn't say that 1 in 5 is plenty, and even if it were you're assuming that all of those 21/23% voted based on his character.

 

That's a fair point re: representation of data, but it doesn't change the fact that voting correlates strongly with age

 

Not condescending whatsoever. But I am afraid there is a culture within Barnsley and other areas where people tick the Labour box regardless. I voted Labour even though I didn't fully buy into the vision. I'm sure there are also areas where people do the same voting for other parties without making a conscious choice. Its's not an easy decision with so much political point scoring rather than real policy promotion so it's easy to see why people do just that.

Also, pretty sure that all Labour promised to honour the vote as well.

I agree about voting independent but there are none standing in my ward. Its just the same failed faces from last time so zero fresh ideas.

I'm just a bit fed up of even at council level, being taken for granted because Labour know they will walk it and other parties not giving a damn. Every council election, its just a waiting game for the leaflet dropping through the letterbox with the Councillor in their best clothes pictured with a shovel pretending to plant a tree. Wow look at this amazing work I can almost plant a shrub whilst I ignore the state of the roads, anti social behaviour in the town etc..

I'd love for all councillors to be independent.

 

Of course it does, and the TikTok generation today are already budding "socialists" thanks to the US Election last year and what followed. I do find that peoples' ideologies shift as they get older though. Once (assuming eventually) you have a decent job, and a decent house and a family who enjoys nice things like going on holiday twice a year and having a big TV and eating out once a week, you start to want to protect what you have and that's why people get more conservative (with a small c) as you get older. The older generation want to hang on to their 4 bed house so they can bequeath it to their children, even though they could comfortably trade it for a 1 bed modular flat and let a deprived family who need the house now have it. And that's when true benevolence doesn't exist across society and it's ok for other people to change, but it probably only applies to people a bit richer than me.