The Boris Bounce

I think you’ve said in the past you were a labour voter but will never again under Starmer, correct me if I’m wrong. Is it just the COVID stuff that has made you feel this way or other things?

 

And when they get a leader who can forge a better relationship with the media they deride him as 'Tory-lite'.

 

The only time I’ve been was aged about 11 to the football ground when I was doing the 92 club with my Dad. We were chatting to a bloke in the club shop about it and he gave me a CSKA Moscow badge as they’d just played them in a pre season friendly.

There you go, that’s my only Hartlepool story.

 

^^^ THIS 110%. Completely agree with all of this - ******* sick of it.

 

It seems to me that Brexit caught Corbyn like a rabbit in the headlights and it ran all over the party and it hasn’t stopped. Starmer’s only asset is that he’s not Corbyn, beyond that I have no idea who he is.
I’m in despair this morning, because I don’t think we’ve been in the thrall of a ruling class since the 1920s. They’ll take it as a signal to do even more of whatever they want.
What’s even worse is that I don’t know what to do about it.

 

I have said this, you’re absolutely right. Yes, it’s mainly down to Covid policy - and the lack of opposition to the Police and Crime Bill which I see, rightly or wrongly as an extension of Covid - I don’t think there’s any other issue that would have turned me off this much. It’s clear from the behaviour that Drakeford has presided over in Wales that Labour would have been even more authoritarian than the Tories have been and as a social liberal I can’t ever vote for that. I view everything about lockdown as an assault on the young and the working classes.

Outside of that - I’m not a Starmer fan, but I wouldn’t be turned off enough to vote elsewhere. On Brexit - meh. I’m a remainer but the damage done by Brexit will be a tiny, unidentifiable scratch compared to that caused by lockdowns.

FWIW I voted Lib Dem in our local elections, and for an independent for Manchester mayor.

 

In terms of specific policies, that’s something probably too complex for a board, but I would suggest as broad strokes the have to aim to win middle England and that starts with a leader that people believe in.
Starmer so far has done nothing to this end and rightly or wrongly the people who need winning over didn’t take to Corbyn.
Liberals TBH, I know nothing to comment on them, whether that says more about me or them as who knows.

 

Completely agree. In my opinion, Tory voters fall into 4 categories:

1. Wealthy
2. Selfish
3. Racist
4. Thick

You get plenty of overlap - 1 and 2 go hand in hand, as do 3 and 4. If you're really lucky, then you hit the jackpot with 1,2,3 and 4 - something which our delightful Prime Minister falls into.

The trouble is, whilst there is so much in fighting in opposition, I genuinely can't see a way out. I'm 40 soon, and I'd wager that I'll see a Tory government for the rest of my life.

Its depressing.

 

I've voted Labour plenty, but not since 2010. I'm not a member, nor would I be of any political party. I vote based on what I think would make most difference, and if it can't, I don't vote.

My 3 votes this election went Labour (for Sadiq Khan), Lib Dem (for local london assembly) and Green (general london assembly).

What I view looking in is a left of the party constantly sniping at Starmer. It's been so from day one. From Unite, Burgon, Trickett, Abbott and Momentum.

What I heard from someone (who works in Westminster) about Corbyn was that he was a dreadful leader. He didn't talk to people and if he was forced to he was quite nasty. He didn't plan, and if plans were made he'd often ignore them or do his own thing. He didn't include people, he only discussed things with Murphy and Milne. He wasn't comfortable with any of it and so ignored it until it manifest as a request for sanity from those used to working in government. That was ignored. Rebels started to fire stronger warning shots. They were ignored. There was leaking of deselection threats and momentum became more like militia. Eventually the first of the coups and some resignations. Corbyn ignored them and pushed harder with the threats of deselection to sanitise the centre.

I've no doubt there have been efforts by Starmer to undo those actions. But to say centrists are all to blame just isn't true.

I've said it before. Labour is too ideological. It will put ideology over power. The Tories put power over ideology. History shows which of the two have longer periods of government.

One other thing, about 2017. I've seen a lot of comment that 2017 was this amazing watershed moment that was a rebirth of socialism. If that was the case, why did the vote drop so considerably in 2019? Another 2 years of socialism promise should see that vote increase, no? There are many reasons for voting, and much of that 2017 vote was a desperate hope of stopping the leave movement. Of having another referendum. Labour were vague and had that option slightly open and people swung to that and I believe that had a significant contribution to a better than expected showing. Though it still didnt deliver anywhere near a significant swing of seats.

And don't get me wrong, I've been deeply unimpressed with Starmer. But I just don't see socialism outdoing populism anytime soon.

 

Master Bates ha ha

 

I think the hardest thing is there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. There is nothing I can do about it. I don't see an answer. Strategically, I don't see a route to anything but Tory power for multiple generations.

We have the worst PM we've ever had. Making the worst decisions. Acting corruptly. Lieing blatantly. Not even failing to live up to promises, just blatant intentional lieing. And it's popular. We've had the highest deaths in Europe. With the biggest economic collapse. And yet more people want to vote for it.

 

There's a house up the lane that needs doing up.
I'm sure the politicians here in Ireland are every bit as dim and mendacious as their British counterparts and we have one or two complete buffoons but the lack of first past the post constituencies and the resulting broader spread of political parties and influence mean there's nothing comparable to the disgusting Tory party.

 

See you in a few months

 

Lol. Kerry is paradise. Apart from a bit of rain now and again.

 

see my comment ref Dennis skinner.

 

I think it’s a question of identity but not in terms of left/right, Conservative /Labour. The majority of people don’t think about politics outside of voting time and why should they?

Go back to the financial crisis and austerity. I think most felt their lives getting worse and certainly no better. With the erosion of community, change in the nature of work (zero hours etc), kids paying to go to college, and not being able to afford a house the future looked a bit shaky.

Then we get Brexit. Forget all the lies etc, this one issue crystalised the idea that if we could become truly British again there was a way forward. Everyone gets it instinctively. It’s a comforting vision that gives you a strong identity in the face of all this globalisation stuff that no one understands. And it highlights no end of enemies bent on undermining it.

Johnson of course is the embodiment of the British greatness and plays to all the myths that go with it like some music hall turn (sovereignty! British values! Fighting the French Armada! Hurrah!) It works across the board from racists at one extreme to your granny thinking, ‘they’re all the same but at least Boris has made us proud to be British again.’

Rather than face the future (Johnson’s policies are little more than ‘Build Back Better’ soundbites) they’ve turned to the past and, because the past offers certainty, folk have understandably bought into it.

‘He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past,’ as Orwell said.

A hard one to counter.

 

Excellent post and this encapsulates my feelings well.

This argument that the left take the blame for the factions in Labour is laughable. Unlike others posting assertions, I'm a member and have seen this play out close at hand. Corbyn was undermined from day one by centrists who were scared of the youthful movement he brought to the party they couldn't understand. They feared their front bench ambitions were numbered and they didn't like the move towards greater accountability and democracy within the membership at conference. Sabotage permeated his leadership. He was derided in public and private. On the campaign trail in 2019, we were told to turn the conversation to the const. candidates if asked about Corbyn. Do you think Tories win elections by that kind of attitude towards their leadership?

Then Starmer. He manipulated the membership with a left friendly list of pledges and a promise to genuinely bring together the party. Many members on the left, myself included, got behind him and saw a promising future, even if we weren't yet convinced. Yet within weeks, leftist MPs are jettisoned. Votes in Parliament and public comments contradict the pledges. And after the Hartlepool vote share falling from 50% in 2017 to 29% in 2020, it's not Starmer's fault but the left for not letting the party unite.

Both factions can be accused of fuellinh division, but for the centrists to claim they're a uniting force, bent on a broad church is ridiculous. Let's not forget as well, for all this talk of Brexit, Corbyn wanted to run on a left Leave manifesto. People's Vote was pushed by Starmer and many of his shadow cabinet who now daren't mention the thing unless it's to blame the previous leadership for 2019.

Where we go from here, I don't know. But neither does Starmer. 2021 Miliband won't work. And if they really want to connect with 'Workington Man', they need to get out there and spend some time speaking to them.

 

I think the only chance Labour have of getting back into power is basically out torying the tory party - Blair is living proof of that - he realised early doors that winning over middle England was key to power and spun the story accordingly - Corbyn and the socialist ethos will never win out in the UK so you are left with the Blair type option, - I cannot see this happening though as there is too much in the way of left/far left opposition within the party which is why I think the Labour party will eventually split in two.

 

This is important as it's missing from the 'resounding Tory win' in Hartlepool.



Tory vote went up by 1,210
Labour vote fell by 13,380

That's not an endorsement of Tory policies, it's a damning inditement of the lack of Labour ones. Scanning the 'liberal intelligensia' comments on the Guardian website, they just can't wait to get stuck into 'dumb monkey-hangers voting Tory'.

Edit: 67% of poeple didnt vote at all.

 

The only thing that will help Labour is that in the next few years cuts are back on the menu. These Tory gains in councils will be temporary. The Tory shires won't be immune from the cuts and hikes in taxes. I'm expecting in fighting after the next budget.
This is going to be long and painful process for everyone. I know for a fact that at this very minute the cabinet are looking for cuts in all government departments. They'll try and dress it up as something else, the media will try and help them. End of the day cuts are cuts.