Opinions, Politics, Personalities and Senses of Humour

3am thoughts because brain mush has the anti-sleeping effect. I've been reading the responses to my other thread over and over again because the overall sentiment made me feel so much more comfortable, and gave me the confidence I needed to feel at that moment.

I received such a barrage of positive feeling, from people who I've seen on different sides of a thousand different arguments. So I just want to emphasise this:

Most people are good; most people care about others; and most people only want what is best for their loved ones and wider society. It's only ever a minority who are genuinely bad eggs.

I feel like with the advent of social media and a society that is well connected online, but less so in person, we're becoming polarised on everything, and it's toxifying our relationships with other good people. Some social attitudes in times like the 80s might have been troubling, but at least there was a real sense of community - and I fear we're losing this.

We all have political and social opinions, and debating is healthy, but why do we now wear our political parties/stances like football shirts, and why do so many of us (and I reluctantly include myself in this) find it hard to listen to someone from the 'other side'? We're all people and most of us hold our political views because we think they're the most helpful to the most people.

I want remainers to listen to leavers, and leavers to listen to remainers.

I want lefties, liberals, and conservatives to all listen to each other without having an aneuryism. You can disagree all you want, but try to learn from the others and understand *why* they hold these opinions, even if they seem silly to you. Then if you stand by your stance, at least you understand your opponent and can put forth convicing arguments, rather than mindless slinging. If I've learned one thing, it's that insults and mockery don't convert anyone to either side - they just push people further away.

I'm left-wing personally and have my ideas of what I'd like to see and why, and people here know that, but members of this board who I know to be more right-wing were equally kind to me - because being a good person transcends party politics.

In my group of friends, three people were the kindest to me. One was an anarcho-communist, one a Starmerite Labour voter, and one a devout Tory. My views don't match any of these stances, but as people they were brilliant with me, and *that* is what ultimately matters.

It's cheesy as owt, but love each other.

Unless it's someone who dislikes marmite or likes cheese and onion crisps, then the guillotine is just basic justice.

 

“It's cheesy as owt, but love each other.”

Except Wednesday fans, obviously

 

You had me until the marmite.....

 

I'm a Green, you didn't mention us in your post. I feel marginalised and disenfranchised now.

 

And Torys and people with personalised number plates.

 

aahhh yes but what about me 'cos i changed my name to match my number plate as it was cheaper ?

 

That's fine.

 

If you think most people are alright mate you must be ok money wise the lower you go the worse people get.it might be a survival thing snd folk are just a product of there environment.

 

I haven’t been awake long and might be reading this wrong, but are you saying that the worse people are those that are the less well off and let’s say lower down the ‘economic scale’? If you are you need to have a word with yourself, if I’ve got you wrong then I apologise.

 

The majority of people from whatever background are sound. I was from a family of 5 who didn't have a halfpenny to scratch our ar5e. A lot of my schoolmates were in the same position. The vast majority of us turned out to be good law abiding people with a sense of justice and compassion. Why should being poor mean that you should be a ****.

 

Sorry, replied to wrong post but it's true that the greater deprivation the higher incidence of crime. That's a reflection on the way some communities are abandoned rather than the people that live in them. I'd also suggest that there's a disproportionate amount of crime among the super rich but of a different nature and that they are much, much more likely to get away with it.

 

Where does our Prime Minister Boris Johnson fit in here then, because none of my family have ever done anything near as bad as him.

 

Can't be doing with marmite, food of the devil incarnate...Other than that, nice post.

 

Not arguing with that but the post I replied to said you must be well off if you think most people are good. I think most people are good (I.e.>50%) even from a poor background. Admittedly there's people from the poor background who resort to crime but is it any higher % than the super rich greedy fraudsters at the other end of the scale? Just don't agree with the sentiment expressed to the OP that she must be well off if she thinks most people are inherently good at heart.

 

@Gravy Chips
I didn’t respond to your original thread, I felt there was nothing I could add.
But I’d like to thank you for your candour and well done for getting through what’s clearly a tough journey.

I’ve mentioned before I’m frustrated as hell with the ‘footballisation’ of politics, and despite that, I still get regular jibes about being a part of it.

I grew up in a world of open debate, where things might get heated, but dialogue should persist.

 

Its an interesting post and has lots of validity.

The media and the right of politics have had a huge part in making politics more binary and tribal. A few years back, one of my friends from London moved to Switzerland. She is in pharma, uber intelligent, a Ukrainian and fierce as can be. I knew nothing about Switzerland of any note, just the usual stereotypes we're often fed. After a year or two, we caught up for a coffee as she was in london and she was telling me about the country, where she lived, what it was like and so on.

One of the things that struck me was that they had just held a referendum where they turned down an increase in minimum pay. I couldn't imagine that happening here, for a number of reasons. But I then found out that the Swiss hold multiple referendums every year. She said the campaigning was rational, logical and merely presenting facts. Then cold headed decisions were made and whatever was best in the minds of the people would be taken forward. I'm sure there will be things carried I'd disagree with, and things I don't. But I was warmed that the system was open and had more rigour than our politics which is tribal beyond belief, and has been pushed that way on purpose to divide and rule, to control and manipulate.

What I also found interesting as I thought about it, was even though we were a member of the EU, that we heard nothing of what happened there. Yet when in other EU countries, everywhere was covering it. Live proceedings beamed over mainstream national channels.

It wasn't the fault of the EU that coverage wasn't shown. But those of our media organisations. Instead we had false stories and hugely partisan media outlets pumping out the same anti EU message day after day whipping up fear and hatred.

Fast forward to the time we had the referendum result, and the first few months I saw huge amounts of hatred spewing out against "foreigners" and as time has rolled on, it feels like its getting worse, partly because the government is using it to whip up division in the public.

One of the few heartwarming moments was the response to your other post. It was refreshing and surprising in equal measure and I'm pleased it was. But I can't deny, it feels against the norm, not just in this place, but more widely.

I hoped the pandemic may bring more unity, heal some division, but while ever a government and media is purposefully opening a wound, how can it ever be thus?

 

As with was your previous post, this is excellent.
As a professional fence-sitter the hypocrisy of people's tribalisation amazes me. And the after the fights are done, the hatred always comes from the losers. Look at the Republicans in America and then compare the demand for a recount with the demands for a second referendum in this country. Just because you have a political preference doesn't mean that you are right and the other side is wrong.
Debate both in politics and on some of the threads on here is now nothing more than name calling and pointing out completely irrelevant facts that are used to highlight a moral or competency failure of the other side. Look at all the abuse Diane Abbot got from conservative supporters. Look at how many people preface every conversation about the vaccine rollout with "it's the NHS workers making the system work not the government" but never talk about the number of unnecessary deaths by saying "I bet at least a few of these were caused by negligence of NHS Staff" And I'll get dogs abuse for saying that, but statistically it's probably correct. It's not a dig at the NHS, it's just the likelihood of probability. Likewise, the government's vaccine rollout, whilst absolutely not a defence against anything they have or have not done anywhere else, has gone very well, and if the worst case scenario on deaths predicted by SAGE/PHE was 250,000 you could say the measures taken by this government and actions of the public have saved 125,000 lives.
It's all about following a narrative that is either pumped into you via the newspaper/media you watch and listen to, or via the vast echo chambers of social media.
Let's all try and understand another's point of view before claiming that if someone voted a certain way its because of X Y and Z. Let's google something and try and understand it before posting a knee jerk reaction to it, and above all be prepared to be wrong and acknowledge the fact when you are. Or when you're partially wrong. Or when the majority of your point is correct but a certain bit is wrong instead of saying "well I'm 95% correct so I stand by what I said."
I see posts on here all the time that are routinely corrected by other posters, but very rarely does anyone say "thank you for sharing that information that has now made me look a bit daft, but I really appreciate being corrected."

I'd encourage everyone to take a bit more time to do the above and the world will be a much better place. Thanks again Gravy Chips for sharing your experiences so that we can all see the world through someone else's eyes. It does us all good.

 

I've forgot all about Brexit now. Tomorrow's chip paper. People move onto new things. We had Brexit, then Covid. The new one rumbling now is Scotland again. People focus on what the media want them to.

I was caught up in the frenzy and hyperbole at the last election. I've been the first to admit that. Wish I'd never voted Tory but I feel politics has changed and why can't voting be tactical to get what you want?

 

Good example about Scotland. If roughly 55% of Scotland vote to leave the UK, do the media portray that in the same light as 55%(ish I know I'll be corrected to two decimal places) who voted to leave the EU? I bet they won't. But will the people who voted remain accept that the ones who want to leave the UK now for their own reasons are no different to the British people who wanted to leave the EU for their own reasons, or will the people in Scotland be pilloried as idiots, brainwashed by a nationalistic agenda?

 

But, Corbyn..