June 21st

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by judith charmers, Jun 6, 2021.

  1. Don

    Donny-Red Well-Known Member

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    So all the news stories about the financial crisis in the Care industry that led to the Tories suggesting an overhaul in their manifesto are a figment of my imagination?

    OK - I must have dreamt it.
     
  2. Gimson&theBarnsleys

    Gimson&theBarnsleys Well-Known Member

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    And being prepared to pay more tax.
     
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  3. Che

    Chef Tyke Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Moving to a cashless society would help.
     
  4. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I said comment on the data to be fair.

    The current data is below/better than what we were told would be a best case performance scenario by the experts that a lot of people have hung on every word of over the last 12-18 months.

    Hospitalisations aren’t out of control. Cases aren’t out of control. Deaths aren’t out of control. We know that a high percentage of cases are contracted within a hospital setting. We can also look at India, a largely unvaccinated country, and see that their cases have dropped off a cliff after their spike. We can look at last Summer when we didn’t have a single vaccine. Everyone knew cases would increase if we opened up the country, that’s no surprise, but protecting the NHS and saving lives was the priority.

    Yet despite all this we’re moving the goalposts on lifting restrictions. Surely even yourself, probably the most pro-lockdown person I’ve encountered other than those who’ve had to shield, looks at all that data and starts to question it? I admire you not changing your stance, and it isn’t about losing face as your opinion is your opinion and a decreasing number of people share it with you, but you must be thinking it’s becoming more difficult to continuously support the existence of restrictions?
     
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  5. YTB

    YTBFC Well-Known Member

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    The data at present looks 'better' than that which they told people would see an end to almost all restrictions on June 21.

    If it's not dates, and now it's not data either, what exactly is it that sees them looking to extend for another four weeks?

    For the record, I'm well aware that the current restrictions aren't anywhere near as draconian as they were, say, a year ago or whatever. But there are still severe restrictions affecting mine and others' lives, health and livelihoods.

    I'm not criticising anyone other than the ghouls and fools in power, who I didn't vote for, who've unsurprisingly made a right mess of the entire pandemic whilst in typical Tory fashion, lined each others and their mates' pockets throughout.

    I'm intrigued to know why things will be 'better' in mid-July, their new proposed date for unlocking the country?
     
  6. Sup

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    1. Ideology
    2. Control
    3. robot scientists with no sense of real life perspective being given far too much power
     
  7. ley

    leythtyke Well-Known Member

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    But isn’t the point that if things have gone out of control, then it’s too late to act?

    Some data points look good, but some not so good such as vaccine efficacy after first dose. There’s also data from North West that can act as a pointer now the delta version is dominant across the country



    Assuming there is a delay, there should be scrutiny of what criteria they are using to determine opening up, and the methodology used to calculate it. Johnson can’t be allowed to palm off questions with “i can’t see anything in the data…” any more. He has to tell us what he’s actually looking for.

    And they absolutely need to be pushed on support for those that continue to have bills without any trade. They seem to be allowed to hide behind the furlough scheme, which isn’t much use to employees, if their employer goes bust.
     
  8. Che

    Chef Tyke Well-Known Member

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    I guess their logic is that more ppl will be double vaccinated mate thus fewer admissions. Not saying it’s right mind….
     
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  9. YTB

    YTBFC Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn’t they have known that months ago though?
     
  10. Sun

    Sunlighter Well-Known Member

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    I will not comply
     
  11. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I think the point is that if you’d have shown the current data to probably anyone, or at least most people, three months ago they’d have likely agreed we were safe to lift restrictions. Not just the general public, but the experts too. But now we’re at that point the data doesn’t seem to be positive enough.

    I’ve yet to see someone plot a graph that takes in to account any kind of decrease in cases, exits from hospital, vs. previous years, etc.

    It goes back to my consistent comment over the last 12-18 months and it’s that we’re not presented with fair data. There’s an agenda everywhere, and more often than not it’s an agenda that supports further lockdowns and restrictions (other viewpoints exist but not in the mainstream press). I still don’t understand how we’ve remained so compliant overall, but we are where we are.
     
  12. Che

    Chef Tyke Well-Known Member

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    I guess it’s taken into consideration in tandem with this ‘new variant’ though.
     
  13. Redhelen

    Redhelen Well-Known Member

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    Who's "they"?
     
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  14. Dav

    DavidCurriesMullet Well-Known Member

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    The past 9 months of in and out restrictions have been a result of 34 billion being spaffed up against the wall on a track and trace system which still isn't fit for purpose. Then look at our shambolic border and travel systems.

    If we'd sorted them and then ran them concurrently with the vaccine rollout we'd have at least 60k in Wembley tomorrow. We'd all be permitted to do more, businesses would have a sense of direction.


    Currently sat in the garden after a lovely walk around Wath Lake. You don't need to be in Spain.
     
  15. BarnsleyReds

    BarnsleyReds Well-Known Member

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    As I've pointed out umpteen times though, the cases are also far lower than the predictions, which means the data on deaths and hospitalisations is not necessarily wrong, but maybe just delayed. As cases now ramp up, it makes sense to be cautious and monitor those other two data points closely over the next couple of weeks.

    For the record, I'm not necessarily saying that the restrictions shouldn't be relaxed fully right now, I'm not qualified to make that decision. Neither are you. Neither is Boris Johnson. If it was up to me, I'd probably say that we should relax fully now but keep an eye on it and be prepared to introduce restrictions in a couple of months if it gets out of control again. The government however have framed this as a final return to freedom, so they're being cautious now in an attempt to try and keep that impossible promise. At least that's how I see it.
     
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  16. Sup

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    The biggest problem we have is that for the robot scientists even just one death is one too many. They don't use common sense because they don't have it. They don't do a science experiment and say 'oh that kinda works' it either does or doesn't. They aren't capable of being a real human and acknowledging that a few deaths is normal, acceptable and how we as humans work. We live, we die.
    Instead they demand (sorry 'advise') that we have restrictions that stop ANY cases of covid. If it was up to them we'd all be in solitary confinement.
    The problem on top of that is that these 'experts' have been given far too much freedom to speak publicly. They are giving media interviews, posting on Twitter and getting their extremely biased robotic views out which the media jumps on and puts pressure on the government who have forced themselves into a corner due to past mistakes. They can't ignore the idiots advice because it's political suicide and it's a situation created by themselves.
     
  17. Dav

    DavidCurriesMullet Well-Known Member

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    I can't blame the scientists, remember they're the ones who've created the vaccine and were warning about the 1st outbreak, then the 2nd, then the 3rd, then the 4th.
    They give advice to work in conjunction with other policies such as borders and testing.
    Instead Boris and his mob agree with them on the Monday publicly, use their media to spin against them on the Tuesday, deny it on the Wednesday (PMQs), butcher the advice on Thursday, and sneak out new policy at Friday lunch time.

    Oh then U-Turn some time later after their actions have totally undermined and made an already tough but manageable situation worse.

    Rinse and repeat, off they go to study more data. It must a thankless task for them.
     
  18. Redhelen

    Redhelen Well-Known Member

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    Not much stereotyping there!!
     
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  19. Red

    Red Edge Active Member

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    Several points worth making (perhaps?)
    1. If flu has flatlined this year but Covid hasn't - what does that tell you about how infectious Covid is?
    2. The latest on the Delta VOC is that it is more transmissible than the Alpha variant - and Alpha was more transmissible than old fashioned Covid.
    3. Cases are increasing - quite rapidly. Lots of outbreaks in schools
    4. If cases are not out of control and hospital admissions are not out of control then I don't see how anyone can argue that most covid cases are infected in hospital (evidence from first wave: 1% of all cases were hospital acquired)
    5. The data on Delta suggests that it could be more severe (more people going into hospital) and the vaccines are a bit less effective (especially if you've only had one dose). Death rates for Delta are low but it's early
    6. If restrictions are lifted (at whatever point) then that won't change how the disease gets managed. If you get covid, then you (should) isolate; and all the many more contacts that you will now be having will have to as well. Unlocking with a backdrop of rapidly rising cases and a more transmissible dominant variant does have risks - it may lead to a lot of workplace disruption
    7. Restrictions do work at suppressing the virus - but very clearly create harm - they will harm #placeslikeBarnsley more - because of our economy and the disregard that governments have shown to the north for decades. If you want to point venom at anyone then bypass the scientists and start with the Witch of Grantham (we are all Thatcher's children - sadly)
     
  20. Sup

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    Remember I'm not talking about all scientists I'm talking about the sage group
     

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