Brexit sucess

I really like to debate people with different opinions. But they have to be opinions that’ll accept facts, not just bullsh it when they’re in a corner.

 

So much for leaving it... Ah well.

I know who I voted for, you can create little narratives of your own in your fantasy world, do whatever you like Donny. If it makes you happy, great.

 

Look in the mirror and keep telling yourself that.

 

Is Brexit still a thing?

 

Literally MDGs argument

 

Well partly yes (but I'm not placing at the feet of remain voters), in fighting in the country in the public and parliament 100% would have given a stronger negotiating hand to the EU from the word go. Anyone with any business sense will confirm that.

Whole process was handled incorrectly. From the moment we voted to leave behind closed doors a cross party group should have been formed to develop our vision of a deal. No leaks to the press or public and especially not the EU until that cross party group had finalised their vision.

Then, it should have been put to another referendum with two choices, go with this cross party vision or alternatively proceed with a WTO No deal Brexit.

Parliament should then ratify that choice from the public... Only then should we have sat down with the EU, with the full backing of the country. We would have ultimately have had a much stronger starting position.

Issues this huge deserve to be handled not by a single party in government snd I've always maintained that.

 

Why has it taken 4 pages for you to start speaking complete sense!

 

Well in fairness, I had to deal with Donny Reds stalking issues so that added a couple of pages helping that little cheeky monkey out with his queries. But I've posted the same many times.
Never once denied it has been a shambles process-wise. Doesn't stop me from not wanting to be part of the EU machine though.

Edit - Donny, above tongue in cheek before you get upset petal.

 

You are partly correct. We should have had grown up discussions beforehand however.

A property presented plan. Showing the truthful position. Big red busses anyone?

Then and only then should we have voted. As it is even now 5 years later there’s still lies being fabricated as fact, really poor trade deals being trumpeted as success and excuses trotted out to cover the original lies.

Maybe you can help me too.... Ive always wondered who elected the WTO? They seem to be the hook that brexit voters seem to hang their proverbial hats on all the time

 

Complete bollax. Granted, COVID has adversely affected our economy and trade but is has throughout Europe but their trade figures are recovering fast whilst ours is still worsening due to the bureaucracy imposed "accidentally" on us by our very own un-elected burotwat David Frost.

3-5 years down the line we'll have no fishing industry, no farming industry, no financial services industry and no steel industry - I've probably left a few out. Instead we'll all be fed on Australian hormone and antibiotic stuffed beef and lamb along with American chlorine washed chicken.

But hey we got our sovereignty back whoop de doo...

 

Yes very true but I guess to a big extent, leaving the EU was an unknown quantity in terms of what may or may not develop. Probably still true to this day.
One thing which is certain is the pushing desire within the EU though for closer integration both political and fiscal. With VETO's slowly being removed, this was my fear in terms of losing control. Imagine if we ended up being tied to an EU finance plan depicting how much public money could be spent in each member state or potentially having to adopt more austerity if that was the weapon of choice favoured by the EU. It is slowly heading there and for me if we hadn't opted to leave now, it would be even more difficult a few years down the line if they do push ahead and entwine further. Maybe it won't happen, I just didn't want us to take that risk.

As for misleading campaigns, yes some of it was extremely let's say crafted to suggest something it wasn't. But both sides were as bad IMO. Our chancellor at the time with his threatened emergency budget as soon as we vote leave which never happened, remain getting additional public money to leaflet every household which was not also allowed for leave. It wasn't a level playing field by any shadow of a doubt. Then again we could say the same about virtually any general election, some of the language used etc. Obviously we don't want to re-open the discussion about the campaign again, another 4 pages for Red Rob to catch up on haha.

WTO. No idea, isn't it just the automatic fallback of how the rest of the world trades. Didn't we get our seat back on that on leaving? As far as I know they set the building blocks of tariffs and if a country decides to lower tariffs on the WTO stage they have to apply it across the board and not to just say 1 country. I don't think that would be anyones ideal apart from the most extreme leading brexit visions.

Personally I thought the best deal would have been some sort of membership payment as access to the single market and just agree mutual standards on any EU-UK trade. For the tree with the rest of the world though then we are free to negotiate on different terms.

 

Complete over reaction I reckon. Post it back up in 3 years and if you are right then I'd be very surprised indeed.

 

It’s literally the only post you e ever mentioned me in that wouldn’t upset me

 

As someone who works in the service industry (IT) and has previously worked as a frontier worker - living in the UK and working in the EU (if only for a short spell) - I am now less employable than a colleague with an EU passport for that work - even if we live in the same town and work in the same office.

Unfortunately, if you have mutual standards and access to the SM you are paying all of the cost for none of the say. That situation would make the UK weaker - and the standards would stop the signing of the trade deals that are needed to make it a success.

 

But everyone knew exactly what they were voting for.

They weren’t, you are clever enough to recognise that irrespective of how you voted.

Who has control now? Why do we need control of something that wasn’t a problem?

exactly!

We could even have shared ideas, information, services and borders, maybe let people choose where to live and work whilst benefiting everyone involved...

 

Baseless assertion.
My post was full of ACTUAL things that are happening now (fishing and financial services) and things that will happen (farming, beef and lamb as a result of the Australia deal) or will probably happen (steel as a result of a China deal and chlorine washed chicken as a result of a USA deal). Why can you Brexit supporters not see the facts in front of your faces?

 

Why not offer remain as an option in the second vote, once the details of the deal are known? Or have the deal worked up before the initial vote at least and ask 2 questions:

1. Should we remain in the EU?

2. If we were to leave, should it be on the basis of the proposed deal, or with no deal?

 

This was and still is the only rational way to conduct a referendum on something so complex. Even more so following a vote that was so tight.

Sadly, sense made way to suggestions of lacking patriotism, liberty, free will and every other ridiculous claim to try and sway a vote through that was found illegal multiple times, but because it was only advisory, the courts couldn't prevent it.

Instead about a week away from 5 years on, nobody still has a clue what they voted for, what they've got, or if it's better than what we had previously.

 

They can, but acknowledging them would be admitting they were duped.

 

So to summarise....

The economy is tanking but that is a good thing and splitters knew that would happen even though they denied it.

It will take between 5 and 50 years to recover but that is ok as we will be better off by £350 million a week

Turkey might still join at some random point in the future (project fear ) but they might have joined in the past.

Splitters knew what they were voting for even though they still dont know what they voted for.

We should have stayed aligned to the single market but relinquished all say in how it works.

It was never about freedom of movement even though that was a large factor in the splitters campaign.

Even though it was the ERG that voted down the May deal, it was remainers that voted it down.


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