Brexit sucess

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Good, keep yer chin up. It's only discussion.

 

It was an overreaction though. you said we would have NO fishing industry, NO farming industry, NO financial services industry...

Of course we will have all those.

 

So they should have voted for any leave deal no matter how badly their constituents would be affected!? That's not what I voted for!

 

MDG, your getting it from all directions mate, leave the snowflakes alone and let them have the board too themselves.

 

I'm not on the Brexit side of the argument, but an MP's duty is to act in the interests of the country over the interests of his/her constituents

 

I’m fairly certain no one said we’d have NO …

But I do remember loads of discussions w Brexiteers re fishing, and explaining to them that the only reason we had the fishing industry we had was that it had access to an export market on our doorstep which we needed because we simply don’t eat what we catch.
The replies were that it was nonsense, it’s be great, our tastes would change or we’d find other markets, or they’d just keep buying from us anyway.

In fact even as tv news was full of hand wringing fishermen, some people were still convinced that it’d blow over.

 

But the majority of people who voted in the referendum voted leave. So yes, in this exceptional process where the people were asked, if your constituency voted to leave that is how the MP should have voted otherwise, why bother with a referendum.

 

I was quoting Brush... this posters words exactly...
"3-5 years down the line we'll have no fishing industry, no farming industry, no financial services industry and no steel industry - I've probably left a few out. Instead we'll all be fed on Australian hormone and antibiotic stuffed beef and lamb along with American chlorine washed chicken."

Clearly says we will have none of those industries.

 

Well @Brush will have to clarify in his own words, but I’m guessing he wasn’t being literal.

 

Hence why I said it was an overreaction.

 

Goodness, you've had a bit of a kicking here. Which is a bit unfortunate bearing in mind Imo I think you've been pretty rational in your views - and nothing wrong with having views if you're prepared to defend them. I've a lot of sympathy for your point about the 'benefits' of leaving the EU and I love the idea that anyone could have voted 'leave' and expect to see an improvement in the economy - short, medium or long term - crackers. I think most voted on their gut instincts without thinking too carefully about the economic consequences. That's why the political decision to hold a referendum was foolish in the extreme. Do we have a Parliamentary democracy or are we moving to the Swiss model?

I think there are (and will be) lots of great things about leaving the EU. You've identified a couple and I'd strongly agree with your point about the problems of growth and GDP being the 'be all and end all'. Goodness if those who are struggling in the UK economy or those who have any level of morality actually get off their arse, we might even put a Govt in place who deals with the economic unfairness rather than continuously spouting 'trickle down ' nonsensical economic theory.

Lastly leaving the EU should be great news for the environment. I've not seen a more destructive policy for the environment in my lifetime that the CAP. Born out of the need to feed people post War - great; but still holding sway and destroying the very eco systems we rely on for human health.

At the end of the day, you're just expressing views and getting a lot of counter views. That's fine isn't it. Isn't that how these Boards work?

 

Yes, well I'm not sure any political party in this country has the vision at the moment on an alternate future not just fuelled by economic growth and competing with other countries.
So much going wrong under the tories but even though I'd vote Labour if we had a snap election now, I'm pretty certain we would see little change in overall policy.
For starters, why on earth are we allowing investment in new power stations from other countries who could hold us to ransom in a few years. We should be 100% focused on building self sufficient renewable energy from our islands natural benefits. Wind, Hydro, Bio, plus with the advancements in solar, they pretty ,such only need natural light now not intense sunlight. I watched a documentary on farming around the world, even in the gas guzzling USA, there was one farm who had become completely self sufficient energywise, using his animal waste to create electricity and biofuels for his farm machinery. It was nothing short of brilliant how everything fitted together. Once the initial investment is put in place for these projects, the benefits afterwards pay that investment multiple times over.
Love advancements in stuff like that.

 

How do they treat non EU citizens worse than us, is it that they don’t give them a choice of which body of water they can drown in?

 

I'll pick up on two threads of the last few posts.

Environment. And the impact of leaving the EU at this time.

I'll start with the latter. I understand some people have reservations about the EU, generally at the ends of the political spectrum, and that's their view. What I can't understand is why people would do that from the left of politics while under the government of a far right populist movement that have usurped power and treat truth with disdain. Any change from being out of the EU is going to be under the watch of a government that is far removed from anything we've seen (certainly in my lifetime). That can only mean they shift in an unchecked way that suits themselves and their backers and cares little for things that matter.

As for the environment. I finished watching a 3 part documentary where Greta Thunberg was followed for a year, even partly through covid.

Though i wouldn't call myself left wing, though I tend not to label myself, just view things as they present themselves and take or form a view, the biggest crisis we have is linked to how we treat our home, how much we consume and how there is no natural check (catastrophies aside) on us overpopulating our planet.

We seem swift to look for capitalist solutions. New technologies, new solutions, new products, changing formulas of goods etc, but we're slow to change our behaviours and frankly, as a human race, I'm not sure we're able. Maybe we're more animal than we would like to accept. We might be aware of things, but never can quite agree a collective of actions to prevent future problems.

We know we're damaging air, soil and water yet we just crack on. Buy more, eat more, use more.

I'd recommend for anyone to watch the programme (think it was on BBC), if only to see some of the impact from moderate changes. From tree devastation, forest fires, flash floods, glacier melt and much more.

I've read numerous books on the topic and the thing that constantly amazes me is how inactive we are to this issue. I don't think being out of the EU will make any odds to the UKs efforts. Not while ever we have a narcissistic liar who will literally say anything to appeal to anyone at any time.

 

Agree with that, but I thnk we have a better chance of changing things in this country whilst out of the EU purely because it is a huge capatalist machine. I'm not saying this government will do anything but hand on heart I don't think a Labour gov would do much differently in terms of the overall approach which you mention above.

 

I watched the BBC programme. It was excellent and frankly scary. To pick up on this point regarding the environment and a comment from earlier in this thread based on the EU and the environment, i believe that to change the environmental opinions of the 29 EU countries (particularly the former Soviet Union satellite states who rely on fossil fuels for electricity generation) you need to be part of the group and round the table to have your voice heard, not on the outside. The EU is 1 sixth of all countries in the world and we had influence as a major economy and military power within the club. We don't now for all our Global Britain spouting and re-found sovereignty

 

I don't see the EU as you do, ad we're never going to see eye to eye on it. And yes, there are things that they could do far far better, But as we look around the world, I'd still trust them more than any other sizeable country/bloc. It also doesn't make sense environmentally to shift our markets to the furthest corners of the world. But leaving the EU has given liars and sociopaths the mechanisms to do what they want unchecked.

I'm concerned that this bunch will abuse the rights they have afforded themselves to the detriment of everything else. We're seeing it on a regular basis in terms of justice, environment, health, home affairs, foreign affairs, international law and just general decency.

I don't know how much this country can take of such people having carte blanche control. And despite Amersham, I'm not sure the electorate will rid us of them at the next time of asking.

 

When you have the scenarios such as the Russians as you mentioned, there will never be any agreement worldwide. Same with all the developing countries within the EU eastern countries, they just see it as the big countries did it and prospered, we're doing it whatever anybody says.
You can shout as loud as you want in a group, if some don't want to listen, they should louder...

 

Main point being, every person can vote within this country to remove our own liars and sociopaths at the ballot box. It's up to the opposition party to promote their own visions so positively that they can change things. Move away from the politics of moaning about the Tories and focus on the picture to the country of this is what will happen if you elect us.

 

Some of the Baltic countries are doing some very impressive things and I think many would be surprised. They may be small, but in terms of tech they are punching well above their weight.

And if we are looking at a less invasive localism model to reduce emissions from food and how people shop, EU countries are well ahead of the curve we find ourselves.