Transgender weightlifter

Thank you for the reasoned repsonse, I hope you understand I had no malice behind bringing the subject up. Agree with you about the separate category too. It seems no one approach is the answer as with most things in life it isn't a one size fits all solution.

 

I have great sympathy for those born in wrong body, and whilst society should do everything it can to remove barriers to that person identifying and feeling accepted as a member of the opposite gender, nothing we can do will completely remove all differences. (Hopefully that will change as science advances, but we’re not there yet.) For example, the inability to become pregnant and mother a child must be incredibly distressing for some MTF?

I think that unfortunately competitive sport is another example. Whilst this may change with scientific advancements, currently there are still biological differences which would infringe on cis women’s rights.

You say that not allowing transgender athletes to compete relegates transgender rights below women’s rights. However, by allowing transgender athletes to compete that is relegating women’s rights below transgender rights. Neither is good, but why has the default become that it is women’s rights that must be relegated? I feel that the least worst option is to continue to segregate by biological sex until there are the scientific advancements to remove the competitive advancement ones biological sex brings. In the meantime, I can’t see a better solution than separate categories to give transgender athletes the opportunity to fairly compete. (Unless it is a sport where biological sex makes no difference.)

 

Nigh on impossible to make a decision without upsetting someone.
I have total sympathy for people caught up in any transgender , and can’t imagine the mental anguish involved.
This opens a different can of worms though, because people will have a totally unfair advantage in some sports.
I can’t say what the answer should be maybe on some occasions the person undergoing the change should forego the right to carry on competing in certain sports?
It’s not inconceivable that countries like Russia won’t start ‘ creating athletes for certain events it’s not far from what they do now and it’s by no means certain they are ‘willing ‘ participants.
The other thing like in this case it will highly likely stop many ladies who have worked hard with their natural attributes from getting to the very top of their sport.

 

He had growth hormone treatment when younger which allowed him to reach his potential

 

As always I don't claim to be an expert, in fact as we all know there are members on here who know a lot more than me on this subject but over the past few months I have become friends with now three transgender people, two are MTF one is FTM and one of the MTF girls started their transition before puberty, the other after puberty so it's really quite a cross section in terms of the effects and things like that.

Anyway I did ask all three their views on transgender people in sport and all three admitted it's not straight forward. The views of all three seemed to be that while it seems unfair to the naturally born female who can be smaller and not as physically strong as a transgender female they asked should somebody like Venus Williams who is naturally extremely strong and tall be allowed to compete with someone like Heather Watson when there's half a foot difference in height and 25 miles per hour difference in their fastest serves?

They acknowledged why it would appear unfair but asked the question is it really that people want to give ALL women the chance to compete in sport even though the vast majority of women are smaller and weaker than the elite athletes? Or is it simply that they're happy for the averagely built, average strength women to be routinely beaten by someone bigger and stronger as long as that bigger and stronger person was born with a vagina? And if that's the case is it actually about giving everyone a fair chance as they claim or simply some misguided crusade to demand a naturally born woman is the best?

 

Q

I don't think biological women are deciding not to bother taking up tennis just because of the Williams sisters though?

 

So why would they decide not to bother taking up tennis just because of a transgender woman being at the top of it instead?

 

Because they will never be able to compete. Plus you have the whole problem of women where the culture is that they can't share facilities with biological men. It has taken a very long time for women to actually begin to be paid as professionals that allow them a career in sports equal to men. My concern is that this will be shortlived.

 

How come you're happy that the average woman can never compete with the physical size and strength of Venus Williams but not that she can't compete with Michaela who was born with a penis? Genuinely why is it ok for one person to use her physical superiority to exclude you from the top of the sport but not another?

 

The way I see it if you're xy you benefit ( compete as a male or a female) but if you're xx you lose out. Biologically males are stronger. I'm not keen on things like basketball or netball where you have to be really tall physically but tennis isn't the same.

 

this is where I really struggle to understand.. why are we creating new terms such as 'cis male/female' then? And then you have the train story where someone got offended at the conductor saying 'good morning ladies and gentlemen'. And they want to replace 'mother' with parent etc. If people so want to be labelled by what they identify as, and dont want the emotional turmoil of being pigeonholed/seen as other etc why don't we just keep male/female?

 

If you think it's fair, can you give me an example of someone born with two X chromosomes and no Ys who is now an elite male weightlifter? Actually, to expand that, can you give me an example of anyone born with two X chromosomes and no Ys who is now an elite athlete in any sport where they compete as a man? No? When you can, we'll have this discussion, we'll talk about how fair it is to these women who have worked their guts out all their lives only to be usurped by someone with a genetic advantage. But until that point (which will never, ever happen) have a word with yourself. And ask yourself, 'WTF am I taking about?'

 

There’s some perplexing stuff on this thread about Venus Williams and other physically strong or tall females somehow having an unfair advantage over other female competitors. Venus Williams is a phenomenal tennis player because she worked her ass off (including making herself physically strong) for many years.