OT - Politics. Which of these potential leaders would you vote for?

Easy to avoid. Bland platitudes.establish eye contact “Love to engage with you but now isn’t the time or place. Contact my advisors and we will arrange a meeting”. Elbow bump and move on.

 

Firstly - I disagree that we're politically very different. I'm very left wing, and have been all my life.

I supported the idea of Corbyn as leader and voted for him in two GE's. I also think it's absolutely bizarre that his popular and fairly soft left policies were described as radically left by the media.

But for me the shine started to disappear when he refused to attend meetings with the then PM, when he couldn't engage in small talk with the PM as leader of the opposition. Apparently, I'm supposed to believe that it's OK to hate a Tory so strongly that you can't exchange a 'Hello' whilst at the same time believing that the same bloke sat down with terrorists only because 'you have to sit with the bad guys if you're going to affect change'.

I'm not in the slightest accusing you of being racist in any way - but I am pointing out that the Left's 'opposed to anti Semitism and all forms of racism' is an absolute nonsense. It's something you've seen thousands of times and have chosen to repeat it. But read it again as if you're a Jew seeing it for the first time. Now what are you seeing? Is it an assertion of equality - or is it something slightly more sinister, something akin to 'All Lives Matter'

 

Oh don't worry I haven't spent that long writing it - I work long hours and have been on holiday twice since my original post

Has Starmer expelled anyone for being Jewish? I missed those stories.

We can agree to disagree - I don't particularly think Starmer is the answer; but the Labour party eating itself instead of getting behind the leader isn't the answer either - and I'm not taking sides.

Corbyn had plenty of positive attributes, however his foreign policies were suspect and his leadership qualities left a lot to be desired (but I wouldn't have dreamed of not voting labour because of that).

But importantly - he lost 2 GE's which is one more than he should have had the chance of. Time to move on.

 

I sincerely hope Anne is actively looking for another hairdresser. One who would deserve her custom.

 

I do see where you're coming from now, but I can only reiterate my previous view. Discrimination is abhorrent and I think that's a pretty clear, blanket view.

Maybe I should have left out my distaste for antisemitism, but I was replying to a post about antisemitism.

But fair's fair, and like I say, I do see your point.

 

JV Feel free to make of it what you will but we don’t know what was said to the crowd in the minutes immediately before the video starts (possibly that KS will not be taking any questions? ) and it is apparent that others are also firing questions at him. However the whole thing looks contrived to me. I wouldn’t want you to think that I’m in anyway a fan of KS because I’m certainly not. IMO he is only a marginal improvement on Corbyn and Milliband.

 

I don’t t know the reasons why someone would target and expel Jewish members. Maybe following the historical motif of the ‘wrong kind of jew’

Labour is a dead party. It has been for some time. I thought Corbyn was very limited as a leader but at least provided a modicum of hope. I see any vote for Labour as being completely pointless. Starmer lies as often as Johnson and doesn’t support or advocate for the interests of working people.

 

At least Johnson lies in a vaguely engaging way. Starmer just lies

 

https://simonmaginn.medium.com/top-ten-labour-antisemitism-smears-f729646378e6

 

I'm a pragmatist - whilst ever we live in effectively a 2 party state I will vote Labour.

TBF though, it's made easier that I have a great deal of respect for my local MP too, so no matter who the leader is, I'm voting for Ed.

 

Polling suggests otherwise. The Party was dying on December 12th 2019 I know that. I was stood in a sports hall at the count humiliated after spending 6 weeks in the wind and rain being shouted at and abused out campaigning.

Starmer might not be perfect but he's streets ahead of Corbyn and is slowly rebuilding from the worst defeat in 90 odd years.

Corbyn supporters lauded his history yet fail to see all the brilliant work Starmer did and fail to acknowledge his principles that aren't a million miles from Corbyn.

I know one thing I'll be out fighting for a Labour government again at the next election not sat at a keyboard sniping and sneering doing the tories hard work for them.

 

I shall be working to unseat a crap local MP and voting Green.

Starmer is much closer to Johnson than Corbyn. They even lie as much as each other.

Labour has had 1 poll lead in over a year. It currently lies at 32% in the polls which is marginally worse than the 2019 result and heading back to the 29% Brown achieved. A party in terminal decline that blocks progressive change such as the vote against PR taken today. By voting Labour you enable the tories.

 

If Ed were my MP is probably vote for him regardless of national politics because he seems a great bloke.

 

Interesting. I think the problem you’re going to have is if you look at all these leaders through a Covid prism you’re aways going to get a negative result.

As you know I am generally supportive of lockdowns, but Starmer has not made this government accountable for its’ actions on either Covid or Brexit. He seems too fixated on dividing his own party. I’m not sure why you’re so bothered about Drayford to be honest, he’s completely irrelevant to us that aren’t in Wales.

As for Ed Davey, nah. And I’ll never vote for Lib Dems after the tuition fees scandal. Utter cûnts that lot.

 

No need to be sorry - debate is what this forum's for innit?

Silly bit first. I only put 'SKS' because I'm a lazy fekker! Just like I'd put KCP if addressing you, rather than typing out Kamikaze Co-Pilot!

I suppose my pitch would be capitalism (because I don't see how you generate invention, create wealth or bring about prosperity otherwise) but with socialist principles overlaid to ensure societal fairness. 'Fairer distribution', if you like.

I don't think Corbyn is a 'good socialist'. I think he sets back the possibility of a party with any degree of socialist principles being elected. His slippery tolerance of the anti-semites is dishonest, to my way of thinking. And I've stated my views on his ineptitude - even when pitched against someone like May - many times.

I don't think many understand where Starmer comes from. Top lawyers/QC's rarely engage in the histrionics portrayed in film or TV. They present calm, reasoned argument. That may not be exciting enough for some, who might prefer rhetoric and bombast. Well you know where to find that. I like to think that when more and more people wake up to the sheer incompetence of the present administration, a calmer more able alternative will appeal.

However, as I said in a reply to YTBFC last week, I doubt Keir will be that person, because I think the majority are still transfixed by headline-grabbing bombasts. But I live in hope that some day greater reason will prevail!

 

Here’s odd…
I’ll support KS, but he hasn’t got Corbyn’s true left vision (which was popular) and he’s not a patch on Ed, who is a decent bloke with principles.

Keir isn’t the anti-Christ some are making out, but he’s being advised badly that it’s the party that needs holding to account rather than the government.

The key to sorting Labour is leading from the front - your detractors will fall into line if it looks like you might do a good job. Labour didn’t rebuild from the 80’s because of Kinnock shouting at the left, they did it when John Smith gave them something to believe in.

 

Come on, own up, who's voted for Johnson?

 

I think this thread encapsulates everything that's wrong with the Labour party.

Clearly the majority of us have left (or left leaning) views but we still can't agree on something as basic as who would make the best leader to take us back to No. 10.

5 pages of bickering.

 

My main political stand point is that we do not become a one party state which sadly is a very real danger as things stand at present. Consequently is my view that the overwhelming requirement for the leader of the Labour Party is to be electable and it is by that which I consider KS as only a slight improvement on his immediate predecessors.

 

Fair do's Mr Kaht. You have your views, I have mine. As I said at the end though I sometimes wonder why I post on these threads. Do I change anybody's views on this forum? I doubt it. I suspect most of us have made our mind up. It's a way of having a rant and letting off a bit of steam I suppose but who's really bothered about my steam...?