Racism and "mistakes"

Am I the only one that struggles with the "mistake" defence?

9 times out of 10, anyone caught making racist remarks says "I apologise for my mistake". Why do so many people make these racist mistakes?

A mistake to me is buying the wrong length screws or leaving the kitchen light on when you go to bed.

It's almost like they're actually racist or something...

 

Do people never change their views and mature as they get older, then? If they say something at say 15 are they absolutely guaranteed to hold that view til they die?

People change and do stupid stuff, especially when they're young, impressionable/ trying to fit in and still learning. I'm not referring to any recent events in particular either.

 

Depends I would say. If it is stuff you do when you are young often as a product of the environment you grew up in that you later get the understanding that you were wrong I think that’s understandable.

Growing up round here casual racism was pretty rife in the 80s and certainly people I know said stuff they would be mortified by if it came out now because they no longer think like that.

Would I accidentally ‘black up’ as a grown man No not at all that’s not an accident it’s just thoughtless racism.

 

Yeah, sorry, just to clarify I'm not talking about recent events either (although that has got me thinking about it), just a broad snapshot of people's responses to being called out for racist comments.

 

Don’t you think that when people get pulled up over “age old tweets” they made 10 years ago or so, that they are then advised to say the right things?.......course they do , they all say sorry for my mistake.....all of them do mate

 

Burn them!

 

This current witch hunt society/ cancel culture side of things doesn't particularly sit well with me if I'm honest and people dredging up tweets and facebook posts that are 10+ years old is a bit snide if you ask me.

I've seen it recently with the Rafiq situation and also with people such as James Gunn with other subject matter. If people have truly changed and apologised for it with no clear evidence suggesting it's still how they behave then I don't think people should be losing their jobs over it.

Expecting everyone to have a perfect life without making any silly mistakes is not good from a wellbeing perspective either. It makes society extremely intolerant of mistakes. Society and what is acceptable also changes rapidly.

 

Exactly this. I grew up surrounded by racist views in my family and at school. Not casual racism in many cases, lots of baseless, moronic, nasty stuff.

Thankfully as I’ve grown up, met people, seen a bit of the real world, learned to think for myself, the stuff that rubbed off on me has faded away.

Sadly I can’t apply this to my immediate family, who think the Murdoch press, the BBC etc. should be treated as gospel and genuinely think immigrants are to blame for them not getting a doctors appointment (in almost entirely White British Hoyland I hasten to add!!).

Thankfully my wife and her family are a tolerant, fair bunch. We met 15 yeas ago and she definitely helped iron out the last few creases. I’m just very grateful social media wasn’t a thing 20 years ago!!

 

We rehabilitate muggers and burglars - not many people would claim that once someones committed this type of offence against society they are beyond the pale forever. Of course people can change their opinions on a whole range of things through their lives and I agree that people should have the space to be judged on their current behaviour and actions and not just on what they said and did in the past. That said, obviously something coming to light now about something they did in the past doesn't mean they shouldn't retrospectively receive sanction - you wouldn't let a mugger off if it was something they got away with for 10 years but were finally caught.

 

This with bells on.

Again it seems to me that there is a race to be offended in a lot of instances.

Ever since I can remember as a child my family has always referred to getting a Chinese takeaway as "Getting a chinky".

My family (forces) lived in Hong Kong, loved the people and would have happily stayed there - so there simply wasn't a racial connotation to it. It was just a colloquialism and was essentially accepted parlance.

About 9 years ago, when asked what we were doing for the weekend I said something along the lines "Nothing much, probably order a chinky but that's all".

A Chinese lad in my team (Alex from Pontefract) said to me "I can't believe you've just said that" and we had a chat about it.

He found it offensive, explained that when he was a kid he was teased for being "Chinky" and that whenever he answered the phone at his parents takeaway and was asked "Is that the Chinky" he would hang up on them.

It had never even occurred to me until that day that it could be offensive purely because I'd never heard it used in an offensive manner and to me it was a perfectly innocent term.

Since then, I am more careful because of the chat I had with Alex. I will make sure in company I always say "Chinese Takeaway" but I will admit, because it's a habit built of mnay years I will still say to my wife "Shall we get a chinky tonight"?

By the barometer on here that makes me a massive racist who should be sacked from his job and shunned by society.

If I'd sent a tweet 10 years ago saying "Fancying a chinky tonight" and then had to prostraste myself before the public and beg forgiveness - sorry it just seems daft.

You cannot (in my view) look at history through a modern lens. Everything has context to it - but we are in the time of black and white with nothing in between aren't we.

 

Sometimes, the punishment should fit the crime. If someone is found to have made racist comments on-line ten years ago when they were a teenager, perhaps they should apologise and spend some time working with young people/schools and telling them why they made that mistake (peer/family pressures, ignorance, etc) and help the youngsters to understand why it is wrong and maybe make a donation to the victims (if targeted rather than indiscriminate) charity of choice.

If they posted something repeatedly for years, and refused to apologise, then it needs firmer sanctions.

 

They should bring back the hair vest,every joke you told back in the day that involved the punchline “they can chuck a spear from 20 yards”,get the hair vest on for couple of days ,or if the punchline was “they don’t like it but it’s good for their colour” 3 days

 

When using words context and intent is everything. To see everything in absolute terms is idiotic and lazy and does no one any favours.

 

Good for you mate. It is highly commendable when people break away from the societal prejudices they have been subjected to (and perhaps then engaged in) in their upbringing, and stop being a sheep and think for him/herself.

Beware the current racist apologists I.e. those who make excuses for racists and attempt to shoot down racism with smokescreens. They are just as potent in their racism, and just as complicit as they attempt to cover up the true damage that is caused, in their petty tit-for-tats.

On Rafiq: interesting how he immediately came out and apologised - rightly so - and said how ashamed and sorry he is at a ten year old text message that has been dug up, yet there is no heartfelt apology from players he played alongside who personally drove him to the brink of suicide through their actions towards him. People are now trying to smear his character and still defend the racism towards him as 'banter' - I heard this casually at the Hull game, and it's wrong on all levels.

 

Also for consideration:
Which is worse, calling someone a name based on their race to their face, or subtly filtering out job applications based on the name on the CV?
It's the subtle racists that normalise discrimination in our every day life that allow the majority of us to say "if someone said X next to me at football match I'd call them out or report them to a steward" and feel like we're contributing to eliminating racism in society when in fact we're just focussing on the vocal part of the problem.


Additional rant on this:
I defy anyone to tell me they've never said anything that offended anyone, but the correct way to deal with it is to apologise and try not to make the same mistake again, whether the offence was racist, sexist, homophobic whatever. Implying that people take offence too easily these days is just a way of resisting change. If I do something that offends someone and a small behavioural modification can make sure I don't offend someone in the same way again, why wouldn't I do it? In the same way things "used to be common sense" this behaviour used to be "politeness and respect". There's no reason to cling on to things we've always done, just because "people take offence at everything nowadays". Try educating yourself about why people take offence. If you think that what you said that offended someone was taken out of context or the person was being a bit sensitive, say "I'm sorry I made you feel that way, it wasn't intended" and then have a discussion about what caused the offence and learn something about other people. Instead of blindly trampling on people as you move through life like a juggernaut with no regard for anything but yourself.

 

There's blatant racism and there's ignorance.

My mum used to use the term when I was a kid. So like you, I was ignorant of its meaning. I'm sure there were plenty of other people in exactly the same position. The good thing, you had an honest discussion and understood the offence.

After that, it shouldn't be difficult to avoid using a term. There are vast swathes of terms, phrases and sayings that are stemmed from racism and oppression. We might say them still and just be ignorant of their initial meaning or the impact they have on our fellow human beings.

But there will be people who won't accept they are still offensive and still use them regardless because of....*insert nonsensical reason*

We shouldn't wage war against things that are simply decent and that allow our friends from a minority to feel less excluded.

 

Just a couple of slightly conflicting points.
As has ben pointed out context is vital.
There's also a hell of a lot of sports stars etc that have had a collective epiphany between the posting of odious comments and the time at which those posts were shown to the world. I'm sure a lot of them did. I'm equally sure for some it's pretty easy to say they did.

 

I think the tone of the reply is often short of what's required. Saying "it was a mistake" doesn't look like they are truly "owning" what they said, even if they're genuinely sorry and not that person anymore.

 

If someone reads this and thinks you are a massive racist who should be sacked and shunned by society then they need to give their heads a wobble. But I understand what you mean, the accusation of 'racist' and 'racism' gets bandied about a lot nowadays, and it masks true racism, a lot of which is underground. You are also right in that there is a proportion of today's society that like to be offended by anything, and, oddly, attach themselves to causes they aren't actually directly a part of nor understand.

The thing I like here is your colleague spoke up because he was offended and he explained the reasons to you, which were deep-rooted in historical bullying towards him. You obviously didn't know this, didn't know the term was offensive, and considered why it was and stopped using it. You had a conversation. The issue today is people often choose not to do that - people either shoot people down verbally (and forgo the opportunity to debate) - i think they do this to try and take (in their mind) some kind of moral high ground that gets them and the other person nowhere because one is alienated and the other is shouting into the void, or they take to social media and do everything on their screen to lambast the other. Regarding your colleague, Alex could have chosen not to explain his reasons for speaking up to you, and could have wrongly embarrassed you without explaining why. But you both talked it out, human to human, and got some common ground and lessons were learnt. This goes a long way.