Derby / HMRC

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Andy Mac, Dec 2, 2021.

Page 1 of 3
  1. Andy Mac

    Andy Mac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Messages:
    10,409
    Likes Received:
    9,595
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Sweet Home Bingley.
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
    Derby saying survival depends on HMRC writing off a TWENTY MILLION pound debt.
    Otherwise liquidation.

    Will the HMRC make WRDCFC and example, or will they crumble?
     
    Andy Mac, Dec 2, 2021
    #1
    Redhelen likes this.
  2. Deafening Silence

    Deafening Silence Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2021
    Messages:
    5,332
    Likes Received:
    7,137
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Barnsley
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    If they write off 20 million quid it should be another 20 point deduction. For the next 3 years.
     
    Deafening Silence, Dec 2, 2021
    #2
    Wuz1964, Austiniho, onemickybutler and 3 others like this.
  3. Father Benny Cake

    Father Benny Cake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    2,300
    Likes Received:
    1,124
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Craggy Island Parochial House
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    My local club, King’s Lynn FC, were wound up because of a £70,000 tax bill, why should WRDCFC get treated any differently?
     
    Father Benny Cake, Dec 2, 2021
    #3
    Bazza, Harrogate Red, Austiniho and 18 others like this.
  4. pompey_red

    pompey_red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2005
    Messages:
    13,237
    Likes Received:
    9,062
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Fareham
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
    Derby should be made to sell assets to pay. However I suspect a deal will be done, if the club liquidate HMRC get naff all so as much as they play hardball they’ll know what’s what
     
    pompey_red, Dec 2, 2021
    #4
    Redhelen likes this.
  5. Andy Mac

    Andy Mac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Messages:
    10,409
    Likes Received:
    9,595
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Sweet Home Bingley.
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
    What I always fail to understand ............ and I get that my business is tiny compared to a top football club and probably operates a different model ......... is why, if I fail to pay a quarterly VAT bill, or an annual corporation tax bill, or God-forbid my PAYE, do HMRC chase me down and threaten me with repossession, fines, directorship bans, and do so within weeks, yet a big organisation can accumulate that amount of debt over a long period of time?
    Surely there has to be a mechanism in place to prevent it getting to that point. Even a club like Bury, who would stuggle to pay a £1m debt .......... how does it even get to that stage?
     
    Andy Mac, Dec 2, 2021
    #5
    Bazza, Farnham_Red, anstonred and 13 others like this.
  6. ronnieGlavinsB@stardSon

    ronnieGlavinsB@stardSon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    2,517
    Likes Received:
    3,543
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Glasgow
    Style:
    Barnsley
    Hector has history in these matters. Liquidation beckons.
     
    ronnieGlavinsB@stardSon, Dec 2, 2021
    #6
  7. Andy Mac

    Andy Mac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Messages:
    10,409
    Likes Received:
    9,595
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Sweet Home Bingley.
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
    They reckon they have no assets to sell. Morris had already bought the ground (a la Chansiri model) and that would have easily been the biggest asset.

    Derby fans screaming at Morris to pay the bill, as he is reputedly worth half a billion, and he engineered the mess.
     
    Andy Mac, Dec 2, 2021
    #7
    anstonred, Connor, Stephen Dawson and 1 other person like this.
  8. lk3

    lk311 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2016
    Messages:
    8,776
    Likes Received:
    7,195
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Earlier in year, we just plain forgot to pay our quarterly VAT bill and paid it at 9am the next day(as we remembered about 11 at night).
    We got a letter through telling us we had been naughty but would let us off but if we did it again etc.
    In all our years trading we had never missed a deadline prior.

    One rule for one
     
    lk311, Dec 2, 2021
    #8
    anstonred, Kettlewell, Fishplate and 7 others like this.
  9. Bak

    Baka Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2014
    Messages:
    5,622
    Likes Received:
    5,618
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Hope they go bust, meh dook. The cvnts.
     
    Baka, Dec 2, 2021
    #9
    Stephen Dawson, pompey_red and portsmouth tyke like this.
  10. Redhelen

    Redhelen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2018
    Messages:
    35,239
    Likes Received:
    41,431
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    But why should they wipe it out entirely?
     
    Redhelen, Dec 2, 2021
    #10
    Redblueunwhite and Stephen Dawson like this.
  11. Mr C

    Mr C Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    24,645
    Likes Received:
    15,378
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Saving the world.
    Location:
    Wentworth
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Yet Bury went under for £150k?
     
    Mr C, Dec 2, 2021
    #11
    anstonred, Macks40, Redblueunwhite and 4 others like this.
  12. pompey_red

    pompey_red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2005
    Messages:
    13,237
    Likes Received:
    9,062
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Fareham
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
    belik and Lawrence might bring in 5 million quid.
    I’m reading if a deal with HMRC is done then a 12 point penalty is imposed, dangerous ground here as a mid table club could take this option to save cash!
     
    pompey_red, Dec 2, 2021
    #12
    Andy Mac and Redhelen like this.
  13. lk3

    lk311 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2016
    Messages:
    8,776
    Likes Received:
    7,195
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Also a pointless penalty(no pun intended), unless it goes onto next year as it won’t have an impact on Derby
     
    lk311, Dec 2, 2021
    #13
    Stephen Dawson, pompey_red and Redhelen like this.
  14. Sopwith Camel

    Sopwith Camel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2009
    Messages:
    11,680
    Likes Received:
    5,445
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Present
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Liquidate.. no problem.

    Or why would anyone else pay a bill ever again.
     
    Sopwith Camel, Dec 2, 2021
    #14
    Stephen Dawson, Andy Mac and pompey_red like this.
  15. Cod Eye

    Cod Eye Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    2,440
    Likes Received:
    2,213
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
    There is a really dangerous precedent that could be set here. Any reduction is just going to give free rein for clubs who are safe from relegation(and can eat the points deduction) to use the admin process as a way to clear any debt they owe to HMRC.

    I'd have no issue if they came to an agreement of knocking off say, 10% then agreeing on a payment plan for the rest(but only if they can show HMRC that there is a clear plan in place to operate well within their own means going forward, and the HMRC have the ability to call the full balance in at any point if it looks like Derby are throwing money around again). But under no circumstances should any debt(owed to anyone really, not just HMRC) be slashed massively...
     
    Cod Eye, Dec 2, 2021
    #15
    Kettlewell, Andy Mac and Stephen Dawson like this.
  16. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    8,352
    Likes Received:
    6,785
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    The interface between business and technology
    Location:
    Brampton by the Sea
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    There is the old observation about banks that probably applies. If you owe the bank (HMRC) £1, you've got a problem. If you owe the bank £1m, they've got a problem.
     
    Scoff, Dec 2, 2021
    #16
    SFOTyke, jedi one, Gravy Chips and 7 others like this.
  17. arabian_ian

    arabian_ian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    13,409
    Likes Received:
    14,615
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Broughty Ferry
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    There is a club here in Scotland who were liquidated but the ground was never sold to help write off the huge debts. HMRC bottled doing the right thing. They still survive with the word The in their new name.
    They still have a mountain of debt.
    I feel Derby will survive unlike many small clubs, Bury being a prime example who just did not matter.
     
    arabian_ian, Dec 2, 2021
    #17
    Kettlewell and kestyke like this.
  18. Dar

    Darfield138 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2018
    Messages:
    2,111
    Likes Received:
    2,661
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    It would be my experience that HMRC won't do a deal. They will issue a 28-day statutory demand then petition to wind up in the High Court. At that point the club can and probably will file for administration. A Company Voluntary Arrangement would then follow where HMRC will take a share of their debt from a pre-packed or third-party buyout. Football debts will be paid in full to ensure the place n the league is returned, otherwise, there will be no buyout. Rinse and repeat with Derby. The football authorities will welcome the next shyster ready to keep the over-inflated football merry-go-round spinning.
     
    Darfield138, Dec 2, 2021
    #18
    Kettlewell, churtonred, Stephen Dawson and 3 others like this.
  19. Dar

    Darfield138 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2018
    Messages:
    2,111
    Likes Received:
    2,661
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Yes, I recall this, they play in blue. The only time I can think of that HMRC actually pressed liquidation.
     
    Darfield138, Dec 2, 2021
    #19
  20. Old Goat

    Old Goat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2017
    Messages:
    7,874
    Likes Received:
    14,508
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Liquidate Derby.
    Scrap the EFL.
    Abolish HMRC.

    All equally guilty in letting the inmates take over the asylum.
     
    Old Goat, Dec 2, 2021
    #20
    Stephen Dawson likes this.
Page 1 of 3

Share This Page