Ukraine

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Tonjytyke, Dec 7, 2021.

  1. Ton

    Tonjytyke Well-Known Member

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    What with the build up of Russian troops on the Ukrainian border and the chest thumping response from the western allies, doesn’t it feel good that can look forward to the bleak prospects of war, safe in the knowledge that we have Boris Johnson in charge.
     
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  2. bfc

    bfc1001 Well-Known Member

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    Really complicated position . The civilians within the dombass are effectively ethnic Russians only there due to the breakup of the USSR vs a weakened Ukraine president presiding over a weakening economic situation . Maybe zelensky will have his galitieri moment .
     
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  3. I'm Spartacus

    I'm Spartacus Well-Known Member

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    Carrie's knitting Bozo a new beanie with, soldier, emblazoned on front...
     
  4. Dav

    DavidCurriesMullet Well-Known Member

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    The whole Belarus refugee situation is directly linked to this. Russia are testing the EU and Nato's resolve to see how far they'll go to support allies.
    Putin wants to make them look weak, by stopping the refugee issue he'll want reassurance he can go into a non Nato / EU state without meaningful resistance.
    He then gets to be big Russian leader who conquered and beat the West.
    Oh and then there's the gas supply issues.
    Either way the West have little options open to them.
     
  5. Dav

    DavidCurriesMullet Well-Known Member

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    Our PM's been dreaming of sending our lads off to war, an old Etonian gets to play Churchill. What could possibly go wrong?
     
  6. Dub-Tyke

    Dub-Tyke Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much bang on.

    It’s Putin flexing his muscles. The ‘West’ have no option really but to push back. If they don’t, then it’s a free for all.

    On a separate note, Trump’s approach to North Korea at times worked well - Kim Jong-un was fearful of Trump, as he knew that he was as crazy as him in some ways. He knew that Trump would have no issue in blitzing North Korea if he pushed too far.
     
  7. bfc

    bfc1001 Well-Known Member

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    Not the only one having that same wet dream . I don't see good things coming out of this .
     
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  8. Red

    RedVesp Guest

    Regardless of what happens in Ukraine, I don't believe for one second anyone will be going to war with Russia.
     
  9. Stephen Dawson

    Stephen Dawson Well-Known Member

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    This guy might:

     
  10. Ton

    Tonjytyke Well-Known Member

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    Maybe Putin will have his Hitler moment. Don't think so though.
     
  11. bfc

    bfc1001 Well-Known Member

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    No . It will be zeleskiy if anybody . Western Ukraine ( the old austo- hungary part ) sees itself as European who hate the Russians . In the east you have the pro / ethnic russain parts that hate Europe . Throw into that a weak leader ( zelenskiy ) with an economy that is dropping to bits but looking for someone to blame . After years of corruption you could class Ukraine as a failed state which it pretty much is .
     
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  12. Brush

    Brush Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't matter who's in charge of the UK, they would just do what the USA says.

    On this occasion though, our government might just be incompetent enough that we would be unable to respond to the call to arms before it all finished.
     
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  13. Brush

    Brush Well-Known Member

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    Crikey, another argument in favour of our own nut-job Johnson. That's 2 today on this same thread AND the other was mine... :eek:
     
  14. lk3

    lk311 Well-Known Member

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    The similarity with Hitler is in that he invaded Poland to ‘reclaim lost lands’ that was still inhabited by pro Germans.
     
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  15. churtonred

    churtonred Well-Known Member

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    Don't know what to think on this one. Russia are doing what they've done for 200 years. Pushing the envelope tiny bit by tiny bit, seeing what they can get away with.
    Putin's grip seems to be at its weakest internally right now. Hopefully he's just rattling the sabre enough to shore up his home support.
    And if we're talking about failed states Russia has been one for a long, long time.
     
  16. bfc

    bfc1001 Well-Known Member

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    True though I doubt Putin has much interest in occupying Europe the way Hitler wanted to occupy the east . These type of conflicts seem to pop up all the time in this region .

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54324772

    Take the recent Armenia Azerbaijan conflict . Who's in the wrong ? Stalin effectively gave a large part of Armenia to Azerbaijan back in the 1920s and they ve been squabbling ever since . The after affects of fallen empires which rumble on many decades later .
     
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  17. StatisTYKE

    StatisTYKE Well-Known Member

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    Hitler’s pretext for invasion was saving the German people in the free-city of Danzig. Nazi press daily reported the persecution of Germans by Poles. There was a lot of trouble - caused mainly by Nazi Governer Albert Foster whose task was to create unrest.

    Hitler finally had “meet force with force” and invade after Polish soldiers attacked a radio station on the border and broadcast a call for Poles to rise up. The Poles were caught and bodies of Polish soldiers were shown as proof of what happened.

    As Hitler admitted before the invasion, Danzig was just an excuse. As for the radio station, the attack was carried out by the SS who left behind dead prisoners in Polish uniforms they’d already killed.

    “History will not ask the victor if he was telling the truth.” Adolf Hitler 1939
     
  18. Red

    RedVesp Guest

    I'm glad we've never been the cause of a border war... Oh, wait...
     
  19. Pin

    PinballWizard Well-Known Member

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    Nothing to do with Russia wanting to reclaim 'lost lands'. Russia has legitimate security concerns that it's made clear for decades. Putin only acting how any great power would.

    One of the greatest International Relations scholars published this a few years back: https://www.mearsheimer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Why-the-Ukraine-Crisis-Is.pdf

    It's never as clear cut as the BBC or Guardian will have you think. Putin is no angel, but he's no Hitler.
     
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  20. lk3

    lk311 Well-Known Member

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    “History will not ask the victor if he was telling the truth.” Adolf Hitler 1939[/QUOTE]

    He wasn’t wrong, History usually sides on the side of victors.
     

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