Formula 1

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by SuperTyke, Nov 13, 2021.

  1. Durkar Red

    Durkar Red Well-Known Member

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    I’m expecting at some point Masi ,as an Aussie , appearing on TV sobbing and apologising for being a cheat
     
  2. Dep

    Deputy Dawg Well-Known Member

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    It does not matter if he followed the "usual" protocol or not.
    Or even if he admits he made the wrong decision or decisions in the circumstances and if the exact same thing happened again he would do it differently(which he is very unlikely to do/admit)
    then again he may say he would do exactly the same thing again if a similar set of circumstances occurred

    Legally he did nothing wrong as he has the full authority under the Sub rules to make the decisions he did .
    even if everyone else in the world thinks it was wrong

    So there is no legal basis for contesting the decisions he made.
    Correct ?
     
  3. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Of course there is a legal basis. If Masi has full authority to rewrite the rules on the fly and is untouchable then the contracts that F1 teams sign are meaningless.
    He could for example introduce a rule partway through a race if a Red Bull was leading but about to be overtaken in a lap or so to halt the race and declare the lead car the winner because he feared a collision so it was in everyones interest to stop the race. - if he did that are you saying it couldnt be challenged?

    Whether Mercedes will actually go through with a legal challenge is a different matter, I dont think they will win and they dont get much good publicity out of it
     
  4. Dep

    Deputy Dawg Well-Known Member

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    When the teams signed up for the championship
    i assume they read the rules first before signing the document and then by signing the contract they agreed to those rules including ones which allow the race director to make adjustments on the fly if he deems it necessary.

    i am not sticking up for him ,i was as shocked as everyone else or most other people at the injustice of it
    but it seems in the rules he is allowed to do these things if he deems it to be the right thing to do
     
  5. Sup

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    The only legal basis I can see is the decision that the rule about him having full authority over the safety car overrides rule 48.12 about the safety car procedure. Does it say anywhere in the sporting regulations what the order 9f superiority is regarding rules? If not (and I don't think it does) then what's to stop them saying that the order of superiority is the opposite way round?

    A couple of technicalities though. The rules states that if a specific message appears on screen then any lapped car must overtake but that specific message didn't appear so would a defence in court not be that the rules regarding that message don't apply?
    And one of the things written is that if the safety car in message is written then it HAS to come in on the NEXT lap. That's just wrong and history shows its wrong. I'm sure I've seen situations in the past where that message was displayed but something else happened after and the car stayed out. If it can be ignored in one direction surely it can be in the other? Not right imo but I mean legally.

    Then there's also the key point of what mercedes want out of this. They can't replay the entire race, it's not feasible. They can veto the race but it gives the same outcome, mercedes lose. They can't punish Verstappen because he did nothing wrong so they can't deduct points from him or anything. Their initial appeal asked for the race to be retrospectively cut short and race positions counted back a lap. You can't do that either because it effectively changes the entire race and again it's punishing someone else for something that wasn't their fault.

    I believe that if mercedes do decide to appeal it will be rejected again. It has to be from a sporting point of view (I know it isn't sporting what's happened) but if they then lodge a legal challenge it will be financial not points and I can see F1 paying out in compensation. The issue then is would Ferrari follow suit due to sainz being penalised like Lewis?
     
  6. icer

    icer Well-Known Member

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    I think rather than any legal proceedings, rules as written etc the biggest issue is that the sport has demonstrated in front of a global audience a distinct lack of integrity and credibility for its own rules and the spirit of sport. The topic will of course be talked about for a long time but its not in TV companies interests to emphasise these negatives. They are happy to play up the great job of the drivers and the growing interest in the sport. I would also suspect Masi may be removed based on a reorganisation not linked to performance once the new head is appointed.
     
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  7. BarnsleyReds

    BarnsleyReds Well-Known Member

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    Hamilton set to be knighted tomorrow.

    Looking forward to seeing the queen nut him and give it to Verstappen instead
     
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  8. sadbrewer

    sadbrewer Well-Known Member

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    It's known nowadays as 'making a mistake'.
     
  9. kestyke

    kestyke Well-Known Member

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    I think Mercedes and Hamilton should withdraw their appeal. They have the moral high ground, Verstappen has a tainted Championship title that whiffs of a shoo-in.
     
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  10. Stephen Dawson

    Stephen Dawson Well-Known Member

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    How long before Verstappen gets sick of hearing he won the title on a technicality? I know there were Liverpool fans that hated the thought of Liverpool *. For me it will always be *Verstappen 2021 Formula 1 World Champion*. (Won because of a fc uk up from the Stewards).
     
  11. Redstone

    Redstone Well-Known Member

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  12. YT

    YT Well-Known Member

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    Mercedes have withdrawn the appeal.
     
  13. Sup

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    It's the right thing to do (for themselves) but I hope they put a LOT of pressure on the FIA to make serious changes now to make sure it can't happen again
     
  14. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I hope that means they can start being more vocal about what happened. The silence made sense when an appeal was on the cards, but when the odds are stacked against you it's wise to back off - even though I think the court of attribution to sport would have ruled in their favour or at least forced the hand of the FIA to admit their mistakes and rewrite the rules.
     
  15. TitusMagee

    TitusMagee Well-Known Member

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    I doubt they will. I am gutted they are leaving it be to be honest but probably wouldn't have done their image any good if they had it overturned. I'd imagine they would have been worried about the impact on vehicle sales etc.
     
  16. YT

    YT Well-Known Member

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    I think Lewis will have had a say in this. He knows he won. The whole F1 world know that he won. And, in being screwed over like he was, he only looks an even bigger winner. People will always look back to the 2021 season and remember it for Hamilton being screwed.

    Shame for Max though.

    As for Mercedes, I imagine a lot of cash has changed hands, lots of promises also. Time will tell I suppose.
     
  17. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Susie Wolff has already spoken out..........everyone knows it's a tainted World Championship. In hindsight, I think Mercedes have played the right card here. Let the FIA have to explain themselves whilst not looking like a team trying to win the Championship in the courts. Doesn't mean I wouldn't have still liked them to go through with it!

    Mercedes' announcement came an hour or so after Susie Wolff, wife of Mercedes F1 boss Toto Wolff and boss of the Venturi Formula E team, criticised the FIA in a strongly worded statement of her own.

    Wolff said that the events in Abu Dhabi had left her "with a sick feeling".

    She said Verstappen and Red Bull were "deserving winners and we always knew it was a strong possibility we may not win - but the way in which Lewis was robbed has left me in utter disbelief".

    Wolff added: "The decision of one person within the governing body who applied a rule in a way which has never been done before in F1 singlehandedly decided the F1 drivers' championship.

    "Rules are rules; they can't be changed on a whim by one individual at the end of a race."

    She concluded: "I hope by March next year there is a governing body with sporting integrity and fairness at its core so I can fall back in love with F1."
     
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  18. DazFrumTarn

    DazFrumTarn Well-Known Member

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    Hamilton will win the championship next season. Mercedes were concentrating more at the start of this season on developing next seasons car for the rule changes. Red Bull threw everything into this season 'cos they knew it was their only chance for the title.
     
  19. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    More damning quote here. Especially the paragraph on Lewis.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. TitusMagee

    TitusMagee Well-Known Member

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    She's spot on.
     

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