This thing at Garrison on Tuesday...

So all this debate back and forth let’s get to the real issue for us Reds, what’s happening with the Scoreboard all this chicken flatbread stuff is deflection tactics.

 

sometimes people will have different opinions to your own.

I think your ire is I’ll directed. The message you have written above should be addressed to the so called “other group” if indeed it can be seen as such

 

Martin Nettleton had them printed. They say Conway out, that’s why the whole thing isn’t called PMG out. Because of margins leaflets.

 

Here’s my take on the whole ST v FB debate, I’m trying to summarise so please bear in mind.

Both want things to improve but,

ST - want to improve things at the club
FB - want to change the owners.

That is why they will always struggle to see eye to eye, fundamentally they want different things (for now).

Ironically if the Owners changed their tact, in terms of investment, spending, recruitment etc and we started to see improvements the FB group would quickly disappear.

Personally, I think if as fans we want to see change as it stands the quickest and easiest way to get that message to the Club is through ST as they connections are already there.
As a result I think FB have made a fundamental error in at worst trying to deliberately marginalise ST and at best made an error of judgement and should be trying to use that link to effect change.
If it had been me behind FB(?), I would have started with Time4Change and used ST as a tool to facilitate and if that didn’t work then moved onto Conway Out etc.

In short, stop squabbling and work together. Focus your energies on the goal.

 

Oh yeah totally. I was referring to the juvenile things that were said about last night’s event and in particular about the host of said event.

Whatever peoples views are about this protest group, that Luke took time out of his own life to organise an event which raised money for the Barnsley Hospice and stood up for 2 hours expressing a lot of valid points backed up by facts.

I say fair play to him.

 

Somewhat understand your point. And very nearly wrote a similar one in that group.

I didn't for a few reasons. Namely:

* I am intrigued as to what the purpose of Conway out is. It's not yet clear. I did ask (after 3 days I think) if it was aimed at Conway only, the PMG, or the whole lot. The response I got was from the nettleton "impersonator". Who said the whole lot.
Luke however has since confirmed it is only at PMG (eventually) leaving the new owners to decide if Crynes will be to work with or not.

* I'm not putting myself in a position to interact and duplicate everything I might post on here, to another group, and have the same debates, if all it turns out to be is another sounding off platform. I don't have the patience to double up on discussions.

* My point above, and as I've been a member of this BBS since 2005, makes sense I comment here. It's a fantastic place at times. And Facebook is a real turn off for me in general at the minute tbh. Its also the length of time I've been on here I don't join other platforms. Be that tykes mad or other factions.

* I'm not aiming to discredit either platform or any other group. People are free to choose who they interact with, so I took the view from my own point of what I perceive to be a complete breakdown in 2 groups. And just simply offered advice to the group I've been on all that time.

I appreciate your point, but should the other group mobilise and it become something that I truly can get behind and support, and if those "disagreements" remain between the BBS and or the ST with the Facebook Group, then yes, I would approach Luke in a similar fashion. As it stands, I'm open to see where it goes rather than dismiss it outright. Although admittedly it has been watered down somewhat from what the original aims are (from what I can make out). Last night played a big part in that.

I don't think it helps any cause for an us and them from either side. I am open to throw my support behind any group that can help push for change. With the obvious exception of violence. I'm not as fit and young as I used to be, and have mellowed quite a lot since my early 20s

 

It'll be fair play to him if the things he's said happen, happen.

Until then, it's just an ego trip.

In my opinion.

 

Loko I think there has always been a divide between those associated with the supporters Trust and those not. This divide is now showing more than ever with the new group created. Personally I've always been associated with the Supporters Trust and believe this is the best way. In this world we live however some people want instant conclusions and are not willing to wait hence the fast progression of Lukes group. Its important to keep offering the olive branch whilst appreciating people go about things in different ways. From the sound Khaled did himself some good last night by turning up. I hope this is a start of further meaningful discussions to overcome the issues.

 

Could you quote those juvenile things, because I haven’t seen any.
In fact the only ‘criticism’ I’ve read of Luke during this whole affair is his knee jerk use of the ban button on the Facebook group whenever he feels under pressure.

 

You've put your finger on it there I think. My understanding is that the FB group have come into being because the majority of our support (imo) have come to the view that the Club is being badly run (at best) or being destroyed from within (at worst) by the current ownership. Sufficient number of them exist to attempt to put together a campaign - albeit floundering about somewhat at the moment - to remove the Owners.

I understand it is the case that the ST do not want the owners removed, and subsequently do not want to lead or be involved in a campaign with anyone (the FB group or anyone else), to seek their removal. That position may change in time but it hasn't yet.

That seems to me a pretty big divide.

 

Neither group will have any bearing on the actions of the owners, so it's a pointless debate.

 

TBH, I would just repeat the above comment, your energies would be better elsewhere.
I’m not laying the blame (if there even is such a thing) at either door just we would be more likely to effect change if both were working together.

 

TBH, I’m not even sure it’s not that the ST don’t want them moved on just that it’s not where it is yet.

 

Firstly, I'll just re-iterate I'm supportive of the position the Trust is currently taking in wanting to talk to Conway before crystallising any call for action or setting out any further plans if Conways contribution falls short or lacks accuracy and clarity.

You've also obviously tried to communicate with the FB group.

The problem will be that in highlighting that you've made efforts, you're inadvertently apportioning blame for those efforts not being reciprocated by the FB group. What you say is true though. And I don't blame you for defending your position.

I know it would be difficult, and I know I'm a fine one to talk on this, but I'd say you've made your points well, you've outlined what has occurred and echoing it further is unlikely to lead to perceptions enhanced from those who have been critical of the trust. I don't think you can say anymore.

And sadly, if you do say anymore and defend the same position, it's only likely to lead to a perception of division.

 

I think this sums it up. Loko puts a brave face on things but IMO the 750K issue is physical evidence of the two critical things that the owners have taken away from the fans - Hope and Ambition i.e.'The Dream' making it to the top tier providing entertainment and excitement along the way. What else is there in football for the fans?
Some people claim football is different, but in reality it is, ultimately, just another form of entertainment which is competing against ever increasing diverse and accessible competition for our attention and, more importantly, hard earned money. Combine that with all the FA/EFL corruption and ineptitude re FFP adherence and Premiership protectionism in rules e.g. parachute payments and dodgy owners (not just at BFC) and the loyalty of fanbase is stretched to breaking point.

 

About to start work mate, so don’t have the time to trawl through last nights posts, but I’m sure if you have a thorough look for yourself you’ll see what I was on about. Off the top of my head I remember a post slagging Luke off for being a ‘bad actor’ knowing full well that’s one of the things he does for a living.

Happy hunting anyways.

 

Time to get behind the team tonight and support them to hopefully a win. This is what we should all be together doing. U REDSSSS.

 

Brexit.
The ST (Labour party) appreciate that there’s lots of problems in the country (club) that need fixing, and want to work with whoever has the will and the ability to improve things for all.
The FB group (Brexit party) don’t like what’s going on in the country (club) and think that the obvious answer is to throw out the foreign owners (EU), with no plan for what will happen next other than a vague promise of a beneficial owner (sunlit uplands).

it’s not surprising that a forum that’s weeded out the majority of racists are more thoughtful and more likely to support the stance of the ST. Or that a Facebook group is more likely to follow the noise of a ‘protest group’.

Nor is it surprising that a ‘protest group’ has gained traction so fast in a town that voted so enthusiastically for Brexit.

Further lack of surprise that having whipped up a mob, the FB group would like to distance themselves from Saturdays violence without actually condemning it wholeheartedly (Brexit and Britain first being two cheeks of the same arse).

just my observation