O/T It didn’t take long

Catch em' just as they've come out of the takeaway half cut after a night session.

 

They have in principal but talk is cheap. But if our 'media' (who don't speak for us and twist things out of all proportion) and leaders keep talking cheaply about Russia I worry it will induce them (and China as ally) to finally act. Then they'd have something to put on their front pages, and it would indeed be sensational for all the wrong reasons.

 

I agree. This thing with wanting the Ukraine in Nato. That's just to wind the Russians up. It isn't because we want alliance with Ukraine.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, if we (and the US etc) really cared about Ukraine, we would have stopped the annexation of Crimea. But even that event tells you that Russia is very selective and will take easy targets. Ukraine as a whole isn't an easy target, and the Soviet Union no longer exists.

 

Exactly, if we (and the US etc) really cared about Ukraine, we would have stopped the annexation of Crimea. But even that event tells you that Russia is very selective and will take easy targets. Ukraine as a whole isn't an easy target, and the Soviet Union no longer exists.[/QUOTE]
For arguments sake. How far do you think Nato would let the Russians go before intervening in some way? I don't share your confidence that Russia aren't much of a power. They've wanted to take on the Yanks since 1945.

 

Giving the false impression by withdrawing some troops but all UK media are giving around the same time tomorrow morning that they expect the attack to come. It wouldn't be difficult to get back very quickly those they send away.

 

For arguments sake. How far do you think Nato would let the Russians go before intervening in some way? I don't share your confidence that Russia aren't much of a power. They've wanted to take on the Yanks since 1945.[/QUOTE]
If you look at the Russian-Georgian conflict in 2008, many predicted all-out war and mass casualties as Russian tanks crossed the border. The bad blood goes back centuries but the 'war' lasted 12 days. I think Russia crossing into Ukraine in a similar fashion would be very different, one they couldn't go back from because its intentions would be crystal clear. I think it would be met with the might of the US army and allies, but then China would likely back Russia up. It's a game of chess. I don't think Russia will risk it. I absolutely think Russia are a power, and I believe its troops are more than willing to go (just like the US). But we have to be careful about what its intentions really are and what our media have told us since 1945. They were quite content I think dominating countries in the Eastern Bloc rather than taking on the US/ rest of the world. When the Soviet Union fell it revealed its weakness, but its potential strengths should never be underestimated, particularly if you add China to the mix, which I think would be devastating for the world.

 

My wife remains convinced (no idea why) that Putin is a closet homosexual. Considering the sacrifices and millions of Russians who died fighting Fascism in WW2 and, by doing so, shortened the war it is tragic the USSR and the Allies ended up on opposite sides (literally and figuratively) of an ideological wall.
Things could have been so different. Their was a glimmer of hope under Gorbachev and Glasnost when the wall fell but things rapidly deteriorated after he left office and this ex KBG officer now in charge has taken us all back to an era of mistrust allegations and counter allegations. We have now reverted to the Cold War. We never learn.
Mankind has enough on its plate battling nature for survival with pandemics and climate change let alone fighting amongst ourselves at the behest of these adrenaline fuelled egotists on both sides.
Gain..why doesn't NATO offer Russia and Putin membership. No dafter idea than all the power politics, posturing wargames etc when money would be better spent on impoverished people that result otherwise.

 

This^
Except there’s nothing actually ‘communist’ about Russia or China.
And the ‘freedom’ in the west is an illusion whereby huge corporations have us all shackled as wage slaves, having installed governments which promote the balance of wealth to an elite few.

 

Ey up Donny, we finally agree on something

 

If you look at the Russian-Georgian conflict in 2008, many predicted all-out war and mass casualties as Russian tanks crossed the border. The bad blood goes back centuries but the 'war' lasted 12 days. I think Russia crossing into Ukraine in a similar fashion would be very different, one they couldn't go back from because its intentions would be crystal clear. I think it would be met with the might of the US army and allies, but then China would likely back Russia up. It's a game of chess. I don't think Russia will risk it. I absolutely think Russia are a power, and I believe its troops are more than willing to go (just like the US). But we have to be careful about what its intentions really are and what our media have told us since 1945. They were quite content I think dominating countries in the Eastern Bloc rather than taking on the US/ rest of the world. When the Soviet Union fell it revealed its weakness, but its potential strengths should never be underestimated, particularly if you add China to the mix, which I think would be devastating for the world.[/QUOTE]
Personally I can’t see China joining in on either side when it comes to it.
I think they’d rather sit back and watch them seriously damage each other making it easier for China to then take advantage.

 

Personally I can’t see China joining in on either side when it comes to it.
I think they’d rather sit back and watch them seriously damage each other making it easier for China to then take advantage.[/QUOTE]


Churchill should have let Patton carry on into Russia in 1945. We wouldn't be having this discussion then.

 

Personally I can’t see China joining in on either side when it comes to it.
I think they’d rather sit back and watch them seriously damage each other making it easier for China to then take advantage.[/QUOTE]

China have been stealthily buying up western organisations and then selling into the west for a good while.

They can achieve more through trading and ownership than through military might. Easier to back up Putin but never lift a finger.

 

China have been stealthily buying up western organisations and then selling into the west for a good while.

They can achieve more through trading and ownership than through military might. Easier to back up Putin but never lift a finger.[/QUOTE]
Even easier to sit back and watch them slug it out and pick over the remains.

 

Blaming brexit for this is pretty strong but suggesting the Russians had no interest in brexit is ridiculous. If that was the case then why did they fund the brexit campaign so strongly?

Western Europe is weaker now so it has strengthened Putin’s hand.

But he is also strengthened by the fact the USA no longer has Trump as president. He was probably the worst president of all time, definitely one of the most stupid.

But he wouldn’t have allowed this to have got this far. I mean, the world might have ended in a nuclear bang, but he wouldn’t have pissed about letting Putin know he wasn’t getting away with it.

The Chinese will be rubbing their hands waiting to mop up any mess and strengthen their grip.

My concerns are the friends of Russia within the eu, the likes of Hungary. It could get a little messy if war does break out.

 

You mean the same Donald Trump as this one?

 

You know there's not going to be a war when Johnson and Truss are on the T.V. and in the Tory rags telling you Russia is ready to attack any day. They can't help themselves lying and p1llocking the public.