If we had a labour government.

No because it was just meaningless. Taking a personal view of anything isn’t especially helpful for civic society. I might want to castrate a rapist who say raped my daughter laws should not be made on personal knee jerk reactions.

 

I’m saying shoot first and ask questions later is no way to model your society. You may think govt is moderate but it may not always be so. One day it may be you they shoot first and cover up later.

Nearly 40 years on miners like my dad haven’t had justice for an attack first and ask questions later policy at Orgreave.

basically Raynor is a poor politician expressing complex ideas badly to play up to the hard right. She is trying to out Patel Patel. Laughable and idiotic.

 

Hang on, I'm confused... Is this not taking a personal view? You can't use those examples to support your view, then discount someone else making the same kind of statement...

 

no I didn’t mention my views there did I? I ask someone’s opinion on whether they were prepared to sacrifice innocent people with a shoot first policy. For me no I don’t want innocent people to be shot and then find out they were innocent I’d like to establish guilt and then for the state to act in whatever way was necessary after assessing the threat and evidence. But if May be something that you and DLW don’t especially care about. That’s your choice.

 

Take the London Bridge attacks which is what I referred to. Police used lethal force to prevent more innocent civilians from losing their lives. In your opinion, did they take the right course of action?

It's not helpful to go to such hyperbole to aim to pitch someone as wanting another Bloody Sunday when clearly they absolutely don't.

 

Yes, is the short answer. The real issue is that when the pandemic struck, the NHS was on its hands & knees already, after 10 years of Tory cuts.

We then had the fiasco of jobs for the boys & billions spunked up the wall on track & trace & PPE to Tory donors & Matt Hancock's pub landlord.

Add into the mix draconian rules that were totally ignored by the "elite" in number 10, while we had to leave our loved ones to die on their own.

That Tory lying piece of poo poo, what a great leader he is. Trump UK.

 

Haha ok. Nonsense. Pointless having any meaningful discussion with you.

 

What he said

 

I couldn't entertain Angela Raynor. She put me off Starmer's Labour more than anyone else.

After hearing her attitude to terrorists , she's my new fave politician!!

The fact that jimmy Viz takes her hyperbolic humour so seriously makes me warm to her even more.

She's my Angie Baby.

 

I just dont think that labour under Corbyn or Starmer we would have rolled out the vaccine as it has been done so we would be in a worse position, i dont think we would have stood up against Russia which again long term is worse and being out of Europe allowed us to push the vaccine out quicker so remain would have been worse. All that is based on my limited political knowledge but common sense but i do know Bojo is still a clown and a lying ****.

 

Bottom line is that Johnson is a serial liar and a shape-shifting manipulator who has no respect for democracy, morality, loyalty or for citizens of his own country. He's a nasty, nasty piece of work who is making corruption even more fashionable. Even 'Im not Corbyn' Starmer would be better. Corbyn would have been better. May was better (and I hate Tories). Everybody would be better. My dog has more moral fibre than Johnson.
And...as an aside I agree with Jimmy Viz re: Raynor. She's either naive, daft or simply playing to the Tory law and order mob by suggesting police should shoot first and ask questions later. You simply cannot have a society where that sort of freedom for police to shoot first is an ok option. There has to be control and accountability PRIOR to the police potentially using guns.

 

I really don’t get this Labour ‘wouldn’t have stood up to Russia’ malarkey, I think they would be taking a similar role as the Govt, by showing support for NATO/Ukraine etc. If you mean that Labour are more ‘aligned’ to Russia because of their ‘left leanings’ then let me remind you No-one has been more ‘friendly’ to the Russians than the Tories

 

I honestly dont know thats why i am asking and finding out, thats whats good about these threads, even though im probably more confused now than when i started this thread this morning.

 

Russian Oligarchs that have money invested in London for eg, I’m led to believe have donated money to Tory coffers

 

Erm. Perhaps look at how Wales rolled out its vaccination process under a labour government and I think you might be wrong.

 

I probably am wrong again it's why I am asking.

 

As the Russia bits been covered, let’s look at your next point. It’s a lie. We negotiated for the vaccine whilst still bound by EU rules, so the EU wouldn’t and couldn’t have stopped that happening. But the lie has been told so often and so brazenly, you’ve accepted it as fact.
Add to that Labour we’re also committed to leaving the EU in 2019, and then we can come to the part we all agree on.
You really ‘don’t know’ at all. You’ve no idea how much bullsh it you’ve swallowed over the years.

And the elephant in the room - this is why we’ve left the EU. Because the Tory press owned by foreign businessmen have been telling you lies for years about the EU. Not for your benefit, or the benefit of the country, but for the benefit of them and their billionaire mates.

So here we are; in a country that is (checks notes) the only country in the history of the world that has signed a trade deal that makes it worse off. Knowingly and pretending it’s a good thing and ‘worth it’. So my kids and grandkids are robbed of opportunities because people like you needed to blame someone other than themselves for the state of the world, and the press delivered you an enemy.

 

Sorry to sound repetitive, are you saying you agree with shooting 100% confirmed terrorists or not ? Its your opinion and no way do, or would I pile on like many on here, cheers

 

If you don't know, then please read Donny Red's post.