Russia invades Ukraine

I’ll say one thing for Putin, he seems to have single-handedly ended our COVID crisis!

 

I very much have to agree with this.

The acts that were conducted behind the iron curtain were truly indescribable. I'm not sure why, but I've tended towards the lure of museums and galleries which have shone a light on the atrocities and those lost.

It's a truly shocking thing to say that Nazi Germany largely ONLY exterminated groups of people, but it has a strong air of truth. Terror was taken to new levels under the soviet occupations and it would seem they did it with great zeal.

It's hard to get across the level of fear that soviet Russia inflicted to keep its people and its "allies" in check.

While it might not be evident what happens in Russia now, its nowhere near the levels of what did occur, and I'm not sure it could happen under Putin in this era. However, the abundance of hugely destructive weapons at his fingertips could potentially wreak chaos that makes ww2 seem nominal.

 

I always knew Liz Truss was capable of starting an international nuclear war.

 

Heavy shelling of Ukranian cities today, looks like the gloves have come off. I understand Poland and another EU country has given Ukraine some MIG29s. Large convoy of Belarussian vehicles inside Belarus borders assembling for a possible/likely invasion into Ukraine. None of this is good, but the worse it gets and the longer Ukraine holds out the more likely it is to spiral out of control.

I guess the question might be, "How much of the Ukraine is NATO/EU/West prepared to give up to Russia?"

If the answer is "none" then you can draw your won conclusions as to where this might be headed.

 

There's no guarantee that NATO would step in with military if the Ukraine was a NATO nation either. Interesting article on Channel 4 news. https://www.channel4.com/news/factc...th-russia-and-could-there-be-nuclear-conflict

 

What about the treaty of Versailles?

https://jimmyatkinson.com/papers/the-treaty-of-versailles-and-its-consequences/

 

In total agreement with you. There’s no good answer.

 

There are MORE Russians than Ukrainians living in Donetsk app 48% to 46%.
So the Russians are actually bombing/killing other Russians -

In Ukraine as a whole app 20% of the population is Russian - (the further West you go in the country the fewer Russians there are.)

 

Well, there were opportunities to oppose Hitler before we did. Turning s blind eye to his rearming, his attacks on the Jews. He'd laid it all.out in Mein Kampf, showed he meant business with his brownshirts. Just like there's been opportunities to keep Putin in check, he's been in control for 20+ years and was in power before that.
If there are negotiations, by their very nature you do have ro give some ground(literally and metaphorically)

 

The Russians aren't bombing Donetsk though, as it's under separatist control. However, they will be bombing plenty of ethnic Russians in Kharkov, Mariopul, and Kyiv. In most of the videos you see, the Ukrainians are speaking Russian. The "rescuing Russian speakers from oppression" is yet more hypocritical nonsense from Putin. Yes, the Donbas population are Russian speakers, and they have been somewhat linguistically pressured by Kyiv at times. But the vast majority of Ukrainians are bilingual, and have absolutely no problem communicating with you in Russian. I wouldn't say that a monolingual Ukrainian speaker is as rare as a monolingual Welsh speaker might be, but I'd guess there aren't that many of them. The Baltic countries are far more anti-Russian linguistically than Ukraine.

 

Is that Russian people or Russian speaking Ukrainians ?
Not gone into in depth but I think a large part of the Russian speaking people of Ukraine don’t support the breakaway never mind the annexation steps .

 

@DannyWilsonLovechild , I don't see how you can say they "only" exterminated groups of people. Some of their experimentation was beyond barbaric and the conditions of slavery many endured doesn't bear thinking about.

Russia, like China has a long history of suffering. Serfdom, regular famines,the oppression under the Tsars. I don't believe the majority of Russians or Ukrainians want war, they've had enough of it in their history.

 

I used that language to try and highlight that compared to what occurred after WW2, the Nazis abhorrence was somewhat less worse.

I doubt most people want war, unless their existence is threatened. The people of Russia and those that prop up Putin aren't necessarily the same. But we're in the position where if you want to try and stop a dictator, you're doing to unwittingly impinge and sometimes harm, the livelihoods of those you don't want to.

I've said multiple times, I've no answers on this. And I'd say those supporting Ukraine are probably just about getting it more right than not. Largely down to the EU and European countries support and stance.

 

It depends what is agreed between NATO and Ukraine. It has been mooted for years that Georgia could join with an Article 5 that doesn't include their disputed regions for instance.

 

This is an interesting thread, does it give some hope ? Possibly

 

Once this is over Putin must answer for his crimes.

This image is heartbreaking.

 

Been reading about this on Wikipedia - as I understand it many Russians moved to work in the mines of Donetsk or settled in Donetsk City after WW2.

From recent reports It appears that the Russians are bombing Donetsk - there will be people of Russian ethnicity who will be casualties of Russian action.