Russia invades Ukraine

agree!

UK is in Nato - the day Nato forces attack Russian forces then we are at war with Russia - a Nuclear War.

 

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Correct , but Zelensky thought NATO would come to his aid . A bad error of judgement from him . Most of his strategy has been " rescue us " which was never going to happen . I do wonder if he has a gun to his head hence why he can't negotiate with the Russians .

https://metro.co.uk/2022/03/07/ukra...eath-after-claims-he-was-russia-spy-16227598/

They did execute one of the Ukrainian negotiators just a few days ago . 2 bullets to the head .

 

Not sure I'd say that's been his only strategy. How they have repelled the might of the entire Russian military, with basically no outside help, is phenomenal. Most people - including the West, were probably expecting them to have just been steam rolled, in a matter of days. The way Zelensky has conducted himself as a leader has been astonishing, IMO.

I do wonder if Ukraine's longer-term relationship with Europe/NATO/US will become strained too? They're fighting for their lives right now, but when it eventually comes to an end, I suspect they won't forget how they were basically left to fend for themselves.[/QUOTE]

They haven't been left to fend for themselves, since 2014 Britain, the US and Canada have spent a lot of time training and mentoring the Ukrainian forces in modern infantry warfare. UK has been assisting Ukraine's anti ship missile building capability for at least five years, their Neptune was supposed to be in operation a few months ago but has suffered a few teething problems and UK filled the gap with nearly £2b of missiles. Likewise Turkey as a Nato member sold a number of drones to Ukraine but were also assisting Ukraine to build their own. They have been assisted with the latest secure communication equipment and party to secret information few others would get. From what I can gather a lot has been done behind the scenes by the US but its had to be done so as not to be seen as overtly provocative to Russia, although it seems like a bit more of a land grab rather than a full invasion was predicted by Western analysts.

 

This is Russia's primary TV channel, and the men you're seeing are Putin-aligned propagandists. The top guy is so aligned with Putin he's been actively sanctioned as a result of this war. For this to be put out to the Russian masses, from a Putin puppet, suggests things are going very badly indeed for the Russians.

 

Yeah, it's all his own fault, he started a war with Russia just so NATO would come to his aid.

This is victim blaming of the worst kind. Do you always react to bullies by blaming the victims for asking for support?

 

@bfc1001 doesn’t seem like the sharpest tool in the drawer I must say

 

Reading the latest BBC analysis and the furore over the Home Office handling of the Ukraine refugee fiasco, it seems to suggest it was a case of incompetence and, crucially intransigence, adhering strictly to rules which were no longer appropriate in the constantly changing situation. They were supposed to have been planning for this since January but clearly completely misjudged the scale of the problem and continued to put National security issue above all else along the lines of 'get Brexit done' and control immigration.

Now here is the thing,..... the claim that it was "highly complex" as it would allow people traffickers to reap the benefits of even more people desperate to reach the UK and that relaxing rules would let "dangerous" people into the UK is tenuous to say the least.
1 The majority of people are either elderly, single women or women with children most of whom have links to UK with family or distant relatives living in UK. It doesn't take much of a leap to assess them and allow them in and process documentation once they are staying with relevant family members. Unlike many migrants, very few will be without passports and paperwork
2 The shambles of no biometric equipment and locking people - elderly,women and children out of a near empty building in freezing temperatures (as happened in Calais) has nothing to do with 'complex situation' it only takes someone to unlock a door!
3 Putting notices up to say they must travel to Paris to apply and stating much can be done on internet when many have no phones (or one with flat batteries and no way to charge them) when they have already travelled halfway across Europe is ridiculous
4 Worst of all are the complete lies that PP has told Parliament. ie. no-one was turned away at Calais a blatant case of 'mis spoke' using 'bull^hit' parliamentary speak. Even the Ukrainian ambassadors wife was initially refused access apparently.

It is difficult to defend the indefensible. Italian bureacracy is often held up as an example of how not to do things but compared to the UK Home office intransigence it is the very model of efficiency and pragmatism!

 

Where does it say I would be happy......what I am saying is we have no choice, what do you want all out war???.....you numpty!.... get yourself off to Ukraine and give them a hand and show your obvious concern.

 

This thread seems to be attracting a few self centred I'm all right jack comments!
Out of interest , if we weren't t in NATO and were under attack what would your attitude be to other countries not helping us?
Fact is if history has taught us anything, pacifying international bullies just encourages them on until conflict spreads anyway.

 

In 1993 had to visit the Home Office at Lunar House in Croydon as I needed to confirm my father (who was Polish) had been resident in the UK since 1947. I needed to do this as I wanted to take him back for the first time since the war.

I was told what documents I needed to bring – proof of entry into country, service records, proof of address, my ID, etc etc. I had them all.

Over the course of 2 hours, I was interrogated. They refused to accept my father’s proof of entry into the UK as it didn’t match their records. I asked why. They said they’d destroyed their records.

They then turned on me and questioned my identity. I had brought my birth certificate. It wasn’t enough. They wanted proof that my father was actually my father. If my birth certificate wan't enough then only my mother could have proved that. This was only the start. And I got the clear impression they were sadistically enjoying themselves

I was treated as a criminal throughout the whole, process. The level of utter contempt for people of different nationalities who were waiting with me was truly frightening. I have never in my life come across such creatures in my life. I say ‘creatures’ as simply, they were not human.

 

Ive probably visited in region of 40-50 countries and the only 2 places I’ve met with a hostile reception at a border was the US and the UK.

 

no point in having a discussion 'if we weren't in Nato.'

We're in Nato - if a Nato member attacked Russia we would be at war with Russia - as said earlier, probably a Nuclear War.

Rather be accused of self-centredness/being alright Jack than risk a war with Putin!

 

Which is exactly what’s happened in this case .
Too many Politicians world wide chasing the Corrupt Rouble .

 

Yup, same.

 

Perfectly summed up by this quote,

 

After you.

 

Recent US Dept of Defence numbers suggest Russia has had between 4k and 6k ktroops killed so far. From what I understand you can usually triple that number for those wounded and injured, so possibly 18k wounded. I've read the war in Chechnya saw 7k Russians die over 10 years.

Before the war started there were an estimated 200k troops on the border, so they're possibly lost 10% of their force so far, not including the hundreds of vehicles, jets etc. As history shows the Russians dont value their troops like other countries and they will try to win using overwhelming force of numbers. That said I think they're having serious issies in Ukraine and at present really don't have any chance of taking this conflict elsewhere, even if they wanted to do so. Estimates suggest the military cost along was $3.8bn in the first week alone. Other figures put this number much higher than that value, per day!

Then there's the economic cost which is even higher.

 

Easier to press the button and have done.