Russia invades Ukraine

Sorry but all this talk of 'history', 'who did what and when', as if it is some justification or at the very least an attempt to explain what is happening in the here and now is irrelevant given studying history doesn't stop this sort of thing happening again and again.

The bottom line is simply that all this death, destruction and suffering (as has always been the case throughout history) is at the behest of one man...ONE MAN!
We, as a species, never learn and, I suspect, depressingly, never will. The basic decency of most people is always undone by someone who is ruthless ambitious and manipulative be it in business, politics or involved in criminal activity.

 

It’s easy to get fed up with bad guys doing crazy things and getting away with it. Trump, Johnson, Farage, Putin. Why the f*** do people support them?

 

Absolutely mental. I hold both my personal and business accounts with Raiffeisen, as do thousands of other people running legitimate businesses and providing employment in Russia. I understand the reason behind their actions, but they could end up doing a lot of damage to completely innocent people if they're not careful.

 

Bush?? Blair??

 

And those people wil be forced to put more pressure on Putin to stop committing atrocities in their name.

Edit: I have sympathy with the average Russian who is against this war and of course with yourself and your family and if I could end the war tomorrow I would for the benefit of everyone but I just think that if economic damage needs doing to ordinary Russian people to make them stand up to Putin in order to stop murders in Ukraine then so be it. Personally no matter how hard it hits the UK and me individually I'd stop buying anything from Russia. Isolate them from the world until they stop what Putin is doing in the name of them and their country. If that means there won't be enough energy for me to watch TV one night a week oh well. If it means I can't use the tumble dryer I'll survive. If it means eating salad instead of cooking a dinner I'll take that too rather than have innocent kids bombed whilst riding a bike.

 

Whats curious is that when Putin shutsdown opposition invoking the rational that they are foreign influenced and backed by Russias enemy’s we all tut and shake our heads at the mad despot, but Ukraine do the same thing? Well there’s a war on, it’s fine. Ok they might have 10% of the Ukraine parliament’s seats but so what?

 

I think it's more the murdering, poisoning, beating and jailing that draws the tuts.

 

Zelensky has done this in a crisis for the country but imo he should have formed a coalition of all the democratic leaning parties .
Obviously the extreme fringe party’s shouldn’t be in this coalition but should rally for the good of the country .
And as far as the pro Russia ones they should be outlawed as Mosley was under Churchill .
Always going to be messy choose what but cooperation at times of emergency should be the norm .
As for Putin he stamps out any meaningful opposition with an iron fist whether in conflict or peace ,
He’s a dictator but don’t make the mistake that he’s managed this alone , there’s some powerful Russians behind him and enabling his actions .

 

What's curious is you are the only one on here that thinks its curious.

 

You cant force people to put pressure on someone who is essentially a dictator and will have them thrown in gaol or even worse if they do so, particularly when what is actually happening is kept from them and they're served a narrative that is not even close to the truth. Well, you can try, but if that's the plan it won't work.

This isn't a critique of sanctions, just an opinion on that particular aspect.

 

Unfortunately the only thing at the minute which seems likely to stop the war is for Ukraine to broadly accept the demands from Putin - 1) guarantee Ukrainian won't join NATO or the EU 2) independence via a plebiscite for the Donbas regions. However whether the US/NATO allow for this is another question - already Biden is talking about a new world order and its clear he sees this as the opportunity to nail Russia once and for all.



If this doesn't make you sit up and think about the motives of the players in this "Game" then nothing will.

 

Indeed . The last time this happened was in 1956 . The French / British tried to take Suez as a way to re assert empire . Within a week the UK lost reserve currency status and the game was up . At least there was a peaceful transition from Stirling to dollar back then . This time I'm not so optimistic .

https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...ons-on-chinese-officials-over-repressive-acts

The biden administration now sanctioning China . Although only minor they will grow and grow . Whatever happens over the coming months god only knows but I do know the west will find itself much poorer . From a purely economic point of view we are in the self harm stage of western decline .

 

Can't imagine what goes through people's heads.

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-...ws-live-12541713?postid=3597752#liveblog-body

 

What exactly do you propose we "do"? Invade? Take russia on? Start WWIII and kill a billion people?

 

NATO official speaking on condition of anonymity suggests Russian casualties between 30k and 40k with between 7k and 15k killed in just 4 weeks.

For comparison USSR losses in Afghanistan over 9 years was 14.5k. US deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq were 7k IIRC.

 

I know they supposed to be the bad guys but still makes me feel sad that some young lad who joined up to get a few quid and pay is way in the world is dead for no reason at all and wont live a life he should have

 

The thing is though, it's extremely unlikely that regular people will be able to overthrow Putin. Any change is likely to come from within. Most of those who are really getting hammered, the creative and middle classes in the big cities, would never have supported Putin anyway, even less so now. But now everyone is busy figuring out how to save their businesses, get money out of the country, or in worse cases simply put food on the table. Overthrowing the corrupt government is way down everyone's list of priorities. Most Russians now can't even realistically escape the country, as their bank cards won't work abroad. This is destroying the lives of regular citizens, and in many ways lessening the chance of them overthrowing Putin in a popular revolution. However, it is my belief that someone within the elite is likely to turn on him soon. This article is well worth a read, despite the slightly shoddy translation.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/03/22/and-putin-stands-alone-a77030

 

No. Do exactly what we're doing now. Helping people as much as is reasonably and practicably possible. Nothing hard about that.

 

I hope that turns out to be true MT.