Russia invades Ukraine

Ah the Sun, the wisdom of the witless. Would never click a link to such a rag, We all share the outrage and disgust at Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, but there is no way on earth that a negotiated settlement will see the complete withdrawal of Russia from Ukraine, and I don’t mean Crimea.

 

Mauripol

 

Horrific pictures coming out of the areas that have been liberated. Systematic rape and executions. Absolute barbarism. We must turn off the gas and oil, it will be difficult for the West and there will be hardship but it pales in comparison to what those poor people have been through. Time to make some sacrifices.

 

Harrowing reading. Be warned.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas

 

No way should Russia be able to resume normal relations whilst Putin and his ilk are still in charge!

 

Simply turning off the gas (without replacement) means people will die.

 

It isn't just "Putin and his ilk" though. People often say that "ordinary Russians" are innocent to this whole mess, but I don't fully agree. They may be victims of propaganda, but they're not stupid. Things will never change in Russia until they confront their dark and bloody history. But instead of doing that and trying to become a civilized nation, Stalin's popularity is on the rise apparently, and a lot of Russians worship a man whose kill count far exceeds that of Hitler.

Putin is a Grade A cúnt of course, but it's not him who's doing the raping, pillaging and murdering in Ukraine - it's those so-called ordinary Russians, or at least people who share the same ideology and values. I'd love to think that things will turn alright again once someone puts a bullet in Putin's head or drops a bit of polonium in his afternoon tea, but I doubt that it'll be enough to cure a thoroughly rotten and corrupt system.

 

Do you think it will be Nato membership for you guys now Tomi?

 

I think so. It'll be a slow and difficult process though, and the worst case scenario is that Finland will be the next Ukraine. I certainly hope that it doesn't come to that (again), but you never know about the megalomaniacs in our neighbour... I've always thought that remaining "neutral" is the best option for Finland, but since Russia has once again shown that they can't be trusted, I'm really starting to lean towards NATO as well. Putin and his cronies have already warned us about the consequences, so it's going to be interesting.

 

You're right -
My Czech born grandmother who came to the U K after the end of WW2 said that one of the biggest myths about WW2 was that 'ordinary Germans' didn't know about the concentration camps and the transportation of Jewish and other groups.
Very difficult to accept that many 'ordinary Russians' don't know what is going on.

 

I’m sure a lot do,and don’t like but similarly to Nazi Germany they are suppressed if they show any resistance, certainly in any open way.
Got to be brave or very well organised to alter anything.
Way I see it is there are three groups.
One that abhors what is happening.
Another that believes the propaganda they are thrown, so just watch
Then there are a lot of old school ‘mother Russia’ types who are happy to go along with it

 

Have you found evidence of racism yet?

 

Reading suggests that as a traditional armed force (nuclear aside) capable of invading anywhere else Russia will be unable to do so for a considerable amount of time after this conflict. They've taken an incredible hammering and by the looks will continue to do so. Visually confirmed losses of at least 2.5k pieces of military equipment including a bare minimum of 410 tanks.

Whilst that's by no means anywhere near their total numbers it has seen 30+ battlegroups severely depleted or in some cases nonexistent. Reports suggest their famous tank Regiment which was involved in the battle of Stalingrad no longer exists.

 

What would you suggest that they do then? Not one person I know supports the war, but I already personally know three who've been arrested for protesting in St Petersburg. One was fined, one went to prison for a week, and the other is still waiting to find out what will happen. While it's true that they can't imprison the whole country, I'd never criticise anyone for putting their liberty, livelihood and family's wellbeing ahead of their political convictions.

 

Oil and gas revenues will soon pay for replacements.

 

An 'ye' harm none, do what ye will.....

It would be nice if some of the ordinary Russian mothers and wives who have had their calls to their sons in combat recorded weren't telling them to steal more from the subhuman people that they are exterminating.

I had a Russian ex acquaintance recently tell me that "sanctions feel like nacism or genocide because they have blocked Paypal, bank transfers, airbnb etc etc" - I copy pasted her words directly from the conversation..... she isn't currently in Russia so I know that she has access to news that isn't censored in Russia.....

 

That is obviously a very good question! From what I've read, things are quite chaotic in Russia right now (and it'll probably only get worse from here) and you can get arrested for whatever reason. I'm afraid that there is no quick fix for the current situation, it's too late for that. The whole corrupt system needs to change. But that's something that only the Russian people themselves can make happen - Putin and his friends won't just decide one day that they've had enough of being evil arseholes, they will hold on to the power for as long as people let them.

I think that the Russian brand of nationalism plays a big role in all this. It's a result of a lifetime of propaganda + Putin has played his cards right over the years, and he's now enjoying his absolute power. I can't understand how he's still so popular though! I'm a member of an online community where I've witnessed some Russian people who always seemed sensible and friendly enough suddenly turn into some creepy fanatics over this. I've seen people openly flying their Russian flags here in Finland, and I've seen videos of these big demonstrations in Europe where Russian citizens show support for "the special operation". Those people must have seen reports of the Russian invaders' barbaric acts in Ukraine, yet they still proudly/blindly support their country. I think that's the scariest and the saddest thing about this. How do you deal with that kind of nationalism?

I know I still didn't answer your question. I wouldn't know what I'd do in the same situation. Hopefully the pressure from the outside and the sanctions will make people realise that they're about to be on the dark side of the history (again), and at some point they will unite and stand up against the evil arseholes. It's all quite depressing really.

 

Well they might try, but it's not so simple to replace that much equipment and 10s of thousands of dead and injured troops.

 

Blimey. The pro-Kremlin rhetoric is comparable to, well, the Nazis.......



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