When is a fire sale not a fire sale?

When you told the new manager you weren’t having one.

OK it’s a cheap shot with rumours of another striker leaving and I know that the board’s changed and they have books to balance. It also looks as if Luton are positioning themselves to be a future, Derby, Wigan et. al.

There is no doubt that last season was a car crash that almost makes Johnson look efficient and the architects of that debacle shouldn’t just be ousted in a boardroom reshuffle they should leave the club, sell their shares and have nothing to do with the club.

I tried to defend the club’s position to my son last night and it’s not easy to be positive. Ended with me betting £50 that we finish in the top six at the end of the season. No, before you ask, I’m not confident of the bet.

We need to see more action from the board to build confidence in the fans. Anybody can sell something for less than it’s worth. It takes vision and ambition to build a future of success.

Passion among fans is a resource that is easily tapped into even in the third division. You just need to give us a winning team. Nobody now expect the board to spend all of the revenue from transfers on strengthening the team, even though that was the promise we were given by the new owners when they came. They didn’t do it and we still ended up with more debt than when they came.

What I’m saying is that as well as being a selling club, we need also need to be a buying club and the value we add is the coaching that we give to new young players to increase their worth.

I’m happy with the coaching appointments but they need to be supported with giving them the resources they need to get us out of this division in the upward direction.

 

I’m going to reserve judgement until the start of the season. Most of our best players were always going to leave - and after last a season, most were damaged goods anyway.

The new signings seem to have been well received. So far, I’m underwhelmed but it could all change over the next couple of weeks.

 

When Duff said there would be no fire sale, he clarified that by saying players would only be sold if the money is right. A fire sale suggests that we would be willing to sell anyone at pretty much any price.

It's difficult to argue that Morris is worth more than the £2m that's being floated around, because essentially, he's a league 1 striker in the final year of his contract.

We are buying players, we've signed 4 already with rumours of number 5 & 6 being quite close (although I think Butterfill may be for the u23s). We need to balance the books somehow, and if there isn't a raft of offers for fringe players such as Oduor, Thomas, Cole, Leya-Iseka, then what can we do realistically.

I hate the term 'selling club', because I could count on 1 hand the number of English teams who aren't 'selling clubs'. Outside of the Premier League's top 4 or so teams, everyone has to sell players in order to progress. The ones that don't readily sell players are the ones who are millions in debt.

 

Agree with all this aside from the last part. I think every team in England is a selling club in some way as every team needs to sell to progress. Look at Liverpool and City. The two best teams in the country over the last few years. Liverpool got most of their success through selling Coutinho which allowed them to invest heavily in VVD and Alisson. City have signed Haaland etc. this summer and have sold players to offset those costs (Jesus etc.) Every team has to sell players to progress, it is the way the game works. Fair enough some don't have to constantly let their best ones go like us, but all teams need to sell assets to enable more growth.

Some like us have to sell more than others due to various reasons which is of course annoying but it is just how it works.

Also, the OP is being very harsh with the comment around Luton being a future Wigan etc. They are well run and don't seem to spend beyond their means at all.

 

City and Liverpool are massively different in terms of transfer approach and net spend.

 

They are but the point is they still have to sell players in order to keep up with the elite in Europe. Even those top top clubs can't just spend spend spend without selling players to offset costs.

 

There’s a difference from selling players occasionally to balance books and to be continually churning through players like we do. Realistically we will be replacing 6/7 first team regulars and go mould the remnants into a competitive team won’t be easy.

 

I think you’re right about my comment about Luton, because I don’t have any evidence, but if the money being spoken of on this board is to be believed, I see a similar sized club to us flashing £2.5 million on two striker who didn’t exactly break records last season.
I don’t know how they are financed, but I know they are planning a new stadium and I do wonder how they’re paying for it. Perhaps you can enlighten me?

 

Carlton Morris contracts 1 plus 1 so the club are okay with the contract. Should he be worth more than 2 million? I'm not sure

 

I don't know exactly how they are financed, nor do I study their books but one striker signing for a rumoured 2 million isn't going to break them and send them into admin is it? It is a bit farfetched to assume this. You are also assuming they will pay it all in one go rather than instalments etc to spread the costs which clubs often do (see Wigan with Kieffer).

They also sold James Justin not long since and had extras in that deal which I think they have received some of that recently too. They also don't seem to pay huge wages like the others you mentioned either.

A lot of their fans are also expecting Adebayo to possibly leave for a big fee. It could well be them planning for his exit getting his replacement in early with them about to receive a substantial fee for Adebayo.

I don't know the full ins and outs of them financially, but this one signing certainly isn't going to make them unravel like Wigan or Derby.

 

Players go for lots of reasons. We're hardly the first club to suffer player losses after a relegation. It's inevitable. Best not to get too attached to individuals. Instead I think it's better to focus on the overall squad mix and what the manager can do to get the best out of them. We've had a play-off season followed by a relegation with more or less the same squad. Maybe the individual components aren't as crucial as we might think...?

 

I'm not fussed who leaves to be honest. Woodrow hasn't been a player for 18 months and Morris was made of glass. Helik wants out as does Styles (woefully out of form). That just leaves Anderson (not been linked with anyone) and Brittain. (Who could leave for nowt for me).

I'll be happy with them all going bar Collins as he was by far the most consistent performer. I look forward to seeing what the spread sheet unearths this summer. That's for all positions.

I'm sure they'll back Duff after head hunting him.

 

City don't need to sell anyone

 

They do. Yes they have a ridiculously wealthy owner who can afford to spend what he wants but they can't just spend spend spend as they want without FFP issues. La Liga wants them investigating currently as they think they are in breach of the rules. If they don't sell players to balance books then they can't keep spending. Hence why they have just sold Jesus to Arsenal, a load of youth team players to various other clubs and why they may end up selling Sterling to Chelsea.

If they didn't need to sell anyone, they wouldn't let those go would they?

 

I used to know how Luton were financed because I used to do business there and the chief owner was a woman in late middle age, who I met, but she lost interest. They were docked points and went out of the league. I put a thread on a couple of months ago about the financial insanity of the Championship, where clubs smell the glory and over spend to achieve it.
Well they had a smell of glory last year and I’m concerned for them that they are well run, but I don’t know.
I’m much more concerned with my own club and whether we have a squad to compete. This is not an easy league to get out of, but we have been good at it in the past. With potential departures looming we still seem a bit light in certain areas, and Hourihane would have been a nice addition.

 

Before we all jump on the bash the club bus, again, let's pause a moment and take stock, and catch our breath

Hasn't anybody thought Carlton might be one of the players who, made it known he would like to leave and therefore the club have accepted Lutons bid which meets their Valuation of the player and have taken the stance, that an unhappy player is not necessarily a good player, and can become toxic in the dressing room.
To be fair to Khaled and Co its not something we weren't aware off ...we were told openly that players would need to be sold to balance the books
Yes we are all no doubt disappointed that the nature of the beast, it demands action needs taking, but don't you agree its better to be solvent than to be up to the eyes in debt or worse, if left un attended.
Surely servicing the debt and getting it under control stops us, from being the next Wigan Bolton Derby or Wednesday, for that matter thus becoming the next Bury. Something we all complain about in all honesty
Harsh reality ...needs a must.
Why put pressure on our expectations re promotion, yes we all want it but at what price.
Rome wasn't built in a day ( I know none of us were the foreman lol ) but let's give this new board the patience they asked for and enjoy the roller coaster that is Barnsley Football club...Bye all means don't ever forget we are where we are because of the mismanagement of Conway and Chein who are no longer pulling the strings, so any anger or frustration, aim it their way

 

Of course they would, it serves them no purpose to have a bloated squad full of unhappy peripheral players. If there are FFP issues they just bribe/pay a fine and it's done. The purpose of Man City is not to make money, it's just to buy success at any cost to launder the reputation of a regime.

 

100% Conor would have been so good. This is probably the toughest L1 I have personally seen. The level of the top teams is very high. I suspect we may be in this for a few seasons like Sunderland were.

 

Not as easy as that. They sell because they have to. If it was just as easy as having a mega rich owner and throwing unlimited money around loads would do it.

If that was the case, why haven't Newcastle gone totally wild yet with buying everyone? It is because they aren't allowed to under FFP. Yes they have spent a few few quid on new players, but nothing astronomical yet because they aren't able to.