[Official Site] CARLTON MORRIS DEPARTS OAKWELL

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Newsbot, Jul 6, 2022.

  1. Hig

    Higgy Well-Known Member

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    The reported figures 2 million and whilst I think that's decent. Good profit i'd imagine on him but it isn't absurd money. I know you don't like him with the Posh fella Darragh Macanthony wouldn't sell Clarke Harris for that.
     
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  2. Exi

    Exile Well-Known Member

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    Probably worth also making the subtle point that instalments aren't necessarily straight periodic cash payments and in those cases nowhere near as appropriate for factoring, if at all. One could quite easily imagine a deal for Morris being, say, £X00k up front, plus instalments based on appearances, goals and reaching play-offs/promotion - the former in particular would fit with the proclivity to injury that some of the 'experts' on here have branded the forward who made most start appearances for us last season with.

    There are other subtleties in our finances that may not yet have been factored in, for example, the likely reduction in player value depreciation both as a cost and as source of cash, as those purchased for decent fees depart and are replaced largely by frees/low fee purchases.

    The concept of the payroll needing to come down by £6-7m recurrently (if we stay in this division and without more owner intervention) is also an interesting area for exploration. I don't disagree with this figure and that next season all we can realistically hope to do is get some reduction (surely Iseka's relatively massive wage has to be the first target?) and then cash from sales and other sources to offset the deficit resulting from the remainder. However, am I not right in thinking that in order to achieve a £6-7m recurrent payroll reduction on eg the 2021/22 payroll from first team and fringe player costs only that would mean the wiping out of just about all of what is currently spent on first team players?!

    Ergo, in order to achieve a recurrent balance consisting of a reasonable-ish first team player payroll and other staff costs quite a substantial sum would also need to be removed from those other staff budgets (and that currently doesn't seem to be happening). Or (more likely I'd suggest) the club will need to continually rely on player sales and those in turn depend on maintaining a reasonable stock of appreciating and saleable (player) assets. I worry that we don't have, nor are recruiting, the latter, which also leaves us a fair way short of being able to realise the best solution to all this of gaining promotion to regain the higher level of income and something more like income and expenditure equilibrium.

    Therefore unlike some of the over-optimistic siren voices of those who often seem to review the club's position/actions through overly rosy glasses to me there is a long way to go this summer and a lot, lot more to do both now and on an ongoing basis than (just!) completing sales for Helik and Styles.

    Also potentially nowhere near that either in total or cash terms and 'potentially' doesn't pay the bills. Both fees are undisclosed so unless you know something that a lot of us haven't seen you can't make that statement with any real level of authority imho. Again, apologies if I've missed positive evidence but I've seen nothing at all on a Woodrow fee and the only mere murmuring of anything on Morris was a vague 'in the region of' from a Torygraph hack, of all people! I could say £1.25m guaranteed and be equally as right or wrong as £2.5m, based on the undisclosed nature of the fees.

    More like £427k (£280k Woodrow, £147k Morris) if we're using the annual figures that are available - £437k* Woodrow and £229k Morris - abated by a month as they've already been paid for June - and 30% (as a rough estimate, could be more, could be less) for relegation wage reduction clauses. (*You have quoted £520k/£10k a week on multiple occasions and I recall politely asking for evidence as to this but, and again apologies if I've missed it, I've not seen you ever do that).

    I think you may be double counting this (triple counting it in relation to Woodrow and Morris per above) in relation to the original c. £7m calculation by Archerfield as I recall his start point relating to the last time we were in L1 which already had the relegation salary reductions built in. Again, I could be wrong, however I think taking everything together I'd say thinking we're anywhere near is wishful.


    Notwithstanding all of the above, time for me to take a break from here for the time being I think. Where we are now is with a squad that's only characteristic is that (Collins apart) it contains the less good parts of one of the worst in Championship history. Within that context, whilst I can reluctantly accept a Morris sale for whatever little it does to our recurrent finances and however much it helps the short-term ones, I've found the near triumphal, almost back-slapping at the departure of our best outfield player from some quarters on here hugely disappointing. Everything from his fitness to his attitude have been questioned and yet he was the striker that made the most league starts for us last season, was the only striker physically up to it and often played on after giving his all, usually to good effect. He also played one of the major parts in nearly getting us promoted the previous season for pity's sake!

    Time for me to now shut up and see what happens in the next three weeks to fill the mammoth deficiencies in the playing staff and judge after 6-10 games. One thing's for sure though, we know that we now have a Head Coach who can cut it in this division and survive comfortably with a moderately decent group of players, so if we run into difficulties this time it'll isolate those above him as being where the problem is.
     
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  3. Gally

    Gally Administrator
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    Did you listen to the bit after? The bit where he said absurd money for players on longer term contracts?
     
  4. Hig

    Higgy Well-Known Member

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    Morris had a 1 plus 1. So essentially for the club its a contract to 2024 if they wanted it.

    Woodrow Helik and Styles I expected because the first 2 one year contracts......... Styles I also expected but Morris, I was quite disappointed and to leave us with ALI (who I expected to leave before Morris) with players I don't think would get a game in league 2 isn't good.

    If I was Mads Anderson Brad Collins and a few others I wouldn't be happy tonight at all.
     
  5. wolvestyke

    wolvestyke Well-Known Member

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    I agree it is the reality of relegation. It's not a shock and won't be when others leave.

    The current board (excluding Julie-Ann Quay and Jean Cryne) aren't blameless though. They were part and parcel of the decision making that got us into the mess we're in. Yes, Conway and Lee were obviously the leading figures but I'm not willing to absolve all the others from any responsibility.
     
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  6. Gally

    Gally Administrator
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    What were the conditions of that clause? Was it still valid (or even viable?) after a wage cut and relegation to league one.
     
  7. Gally

    Gally Administrator
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    They didn't have the votes to make any decisions. That's kind of the point of what happened this summer.
     
  8. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator
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    I wasn’t double counting so no need for me to take their relegation clauses in to account. The saving needs to come vs. last year, no?

    I’ve had it on good authority that Cauley’s new contract moved him to five figures a week. Other sources have said similar. I can’t give anymore evidence of that so you can choose to believe it or not, which I do.
     
  9. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    He was very transparent. He said we haven't got any money. He said the board have (or were about to) put £1 million into the club. He said hopefully that would tide us over until we sold some players, which means that it is was likely to run out some time during the close season if we didn't sell players (which should, but clearly didn't, have given a massive indication of just how deep in the brown stuff we are). Obviously this meant we were going to (simply had to) sell players. Which he confirmed we would do. This shouldn't need saying but clearly does: when you sell players, you sell the good ones. No one wants the bad ones. And if you need money, which we desperately do, it's only the good ones that are worth anything.

    I said at the time that people simply weren't understanding the gravity of the situation.

    https://barnsleyfc.org.uk/threads/bfcst-summary-of-yesterday’s-press-conference.314460/#post-2959044
     
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  10. Jack Tatty

    Jack Tatty Well-Known Member

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    Enlighten me as to why oh wise one.
     
  11. Dja

    Django Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think he’s played. I’ve no doubt he wanted out (they all do) but we seem to be the only club that always let the player go as soon as there’s interest. I constantly hear of other clubs where players want out & the club get another year out of them.

    When you’ve got an all round quality striker like we had with Morris & like we had with Moore & they have 2 or more years on their contracts we should be getting proper fees.
     
  12. Stephen Dawson

    Stephen Dawson Well-Known Member

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    Higgy has a point. When you don't hold out for decent transfer fees and other players heads get turned seeing how easy it is to leave.
     
  13. Dja

    Django Well-Known Member

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    That’s a fair point.

    Whilst the board might think it’s the right thing to do telling the fans how skint they are it’s definitely counter productive in terms of generating decent transfer fees.

    Helik & his agent will be looking at it thinking strikers tend to go for bigger fees than defenders & they’ve already signed his replacement so why shouldn’t he be sold for £1.5m?
     
  14. NathanBFC94

    NathanBFC94 Well-Known Member

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    https://www.barnsleyfc.co.uk/news/2019/june/collins-signs/

    4 Years but we have an option in our favour it seems which surely we should be looking to take up. Current 4 years would take him to next summer.
     
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  15. Gally

    Gally Administrator
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    Again that totally depends on the agreement. We've seen it before where relegation negates an extension option. Similarly, what is the agreed salary for the extension assuming we can still trigger it? As a league one club can we actually afford it?
     
  16. NathanBFC94

    NathanBFC94 Well-Known Member

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    None of use can answer those questions, only the club. I am basing it purely on what the statement I linked says which simply just says '4 year deal with an option of a fifth in the clubs favour' giving it the impression that we can trigger it if we want. It of course doesn't mention any stipulations around relegations etc.

    I can't imagine Collins will be on a huge wage either. He is still on the same contract he was when we initially brought him in as a young and fairly inexperienced keeper who was initially second choice to Radlinger. Based on that I would again guess we could afford it providing there isn't a clause about relegation etc. That is based purely on my own guess work though as like I said, none of us know the full details of the contract.
     
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  17. Sopwith Camel

    Sopwith Camel Well-Known Member

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    Some listen but don't hear what is actually said.
     
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  18. Men

    Menai Tyke Well-Known Member

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    Would have agreed with you except the chronicle stated something about Morris wages being affordable based on his contract and we still moved him on.
     
  19. Mrs

    MrsHallsToffeerolls Well-Known Member

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    Good luck for the future Carlton .
     
  20. NathanBFC94

    NathanBFC94 Well-Known Member

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    It is not been said anywhere that we sold him simply because we couldn't sustain his wage though. He may have asked to leave and the club has granted that when what they saw as an acceptable fee came in. Doug said his wage was affordable for this league, I am sure Doug was correct in that but if Morris wanted to leave then let him go. No point having someone here who isn't 100% committed.

    Also, we all know we have this 7 million gap to fill. Ideally, they would have filled that from sales of Styles and Helik and other players with 1 year left. If no one has bid for those then we will have to bridge that in other ways by selling those that clubs are bidding for.
     
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