I I know there are a number on here will strongly disagree with me but...

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Tekkytyke, Aug 13, 2022.

  1. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

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    As a good legal professional as no doubt you are, you tend to focus in on the weaker points of someone's argument and ignore more valid points. Fair enough.
    Could you however, break with tradition here;) and give your opinion on , what I consider to be valid points regarding geographic location not always being disadvantageous in sourcing information from a different perspective? Also, it is supposed to be a social forum so some of the responses could be a little lighter in tone (and yes I am guilty of being too intense and over opinionated sometimes) . I suppose it is due to the fact we are both, as are some others on here, probably strong willed and probably overly passionate about certain topics.

    So I trust weather is good where you are so enjoy it and your Sunday.
     
  2. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

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    Interesting point.
     
  3. man

    mansfield_red Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough, but I think when you're dealing with something such as general sentiment you gauge it as much (if not more) by snippets of comments here and there, radio shows you have on in the background etc. as you do discrete tweets and articles.

    It's like gauging Barnsley fan sentiment based on just reading posts on here, versus reading posts on here and attending games.

    But yeah, I am an argumentative ****, point taken on that
     
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  4. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    Many of the current industrial disputes appear to concern whether workers should receive pay increases that match inflation. In other words, they are asking that their work rewards them with the same purchasing power as they had previously during their employment. That is not really asking for anything more. To deny them that level of reward is really asking the workers to pay for the cost of inflation, rather than companies, shareholders or consumers bearing part of that burden. To consistently impose pay increases (or freezes) which do not match inflation is to downgrade the value of employees' work. I struggle to see how that is consistent with any move towards a high-skill, high-wage economy, which is what was promised a little while ago. The union members have been properly consulted on action, so I wouldn't accept the proposition in the opening post that the unions are not doing themselves any favours. The way I see it, they are doing what they are supposed to do!
     
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  5. Sup

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    One question there. If the consumers pay for the wage rises presumably via higher prices then doesn't that drive inflation up again?
     
  6. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    That is only one part of the dynamic. But the consumer has the choice whether to buy that good or service. Ultimately, price rises drop out of the figures after twelve months in any event where the increase is a one-off.
     
  7. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure... In terms of this 'new' Energy Industry proposal to keep the current cap on the prices for the consumer and the Govt make up their 'shortfall' and the consumer pays back over 15 years in increased electricity bills it is a 'buy now pay later' scam (IMO) It is yet one more way of transferring taxpayers money to private industry which is already making excessive profits.
    Privatisation was always 'sold' to the public on the idea that it was the only way to finance the update and modernise the crumbling infrastructure- transport, water, electricity and gas, NHS and Education buildings. Much of that 'investment' never happened. Instead we ended up with over inflated salaries for top Executives, high dividend payouts which simply added another layer of cost for conusmers rather than benefitting them. Thames water, for example still loses millions of gallons of water per day through leaks. No new reservoirs built or planned.

    Conservatives may have a point in promoting policies that are business friendly and come election time when Cons win the foreign investment rises as does the pound . Generating wealth is not, historically a problem for the Conservatives.
    Labour have, IMO, historically have far better ideas of how to fairly distribute the Wealth and supporting the population at large. However, again, IMO, historically fhe tendency is for foreign investors to lose confidence when Labour are elected since they have tended to be viewed as less business friendly and investement falls and the pound dips.

    The point being, Cons fall down since they believe the myth of the 'Trickle down' economy. Rather than that happening, the money ends up in the hands of a few and in offshore accounts which is of no benefit to the country as a whole and certainly not the people who deserve a share of the wealth they helped to create. It is all well and good complaining about GDP being low and productivity being far below other countries but who can blame people when they see the reward for all their efforts ending up in the hands of that select few with the gap ever widening.

    If only we had a Govt that could generate wealth by attracting business and foreign investors AT THE SAME TIME as ensuring the rewards were invested in the country and of benefit to the population at large. Alas, when Govts change hands the inevitable scrapping of policies good and bad follows as sure as night follows day . NO new minister taking office ever turns round and says "You know what the last Govt made some decent decisions let's see how we can develop them further" Instead they throw the baby out with the bathwater and reverse everything!
     
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  8. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    You know what Tekky, there is much of that I agree with! :)
     
  9. Don

    Donny-Red Well-Known Member

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    @Tekkytyke that’s not a bad evaluation, albeit somewhat coloured by the media narrative.

    Firstly, whilst the markets might react positively temporarily to a Tory election win, and the opposite for labour, that’s purely based on gambling and therefore the media narrative. In reality it’s insignificant.

    But it leads into the next point; the Tory lie that they have a better economic record, I won’t go into detail but it’s not true.
    Also not true that they’re the party of low taxes, or low borrowing.

    Then there’s your belief that Tories believe in ‘trickle down’ economics? Hate to break this to you, they lied, they know there’s no such thing as trickle down economics, but it helps them get poor people to vote for them. (Btw not party political, new labour also ‘believed’).

    See also ‘the party of business’; they genuinely only care about big business, the idea that small businesses benefit under the Tories can be filed alongside ’trickle down economics’

    None of that btw is even close to @SuperTyke question concerning wage growth and inflation.

    That’s complex, but I believe it’s been answered recently. True inflation is demand led, and occurs where demand is greater than supply, driving prices up, driving wages up, leading to loss of jobs, leading to lower output, growing prices and back round again.

    What we’re experiencing now isn’t that. We have a stagnating economy where supply is depressed, leading to high prices, though importantly, not due to costs, but to feed higher profits.

    Which does interestingly bring us back to the OP. When companies are making record profits, don’t they have a simple moral duty to ensure their workers have wage rises that match inflation?
     
  10. Redarmy87

    Redarmy87 Well-Known Member

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    Excellent post. Go easy though, he doesn't like to get into political debates. He starts them, but he doesn't like them apparantly. It would be nice to hear about some football from him from time to time. Serie A, B or C will do, any football-related content is welcome.
     
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  11. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I tried. Attempted to finish his headline with something relating to the game that was kicking off six hours after he posted!
     
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  12. Redarmy87

    Redarmy87 Well-Known Member

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    Ah I get it now! Well, nice try anyways :)
     
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  13. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

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    You two should get a room;)

    The thread has moved on somewhat, where have you been? Also I did acknowledge I had brain fade and typed RMT in error. which I corrected when pointed out.

    Of course, there are plenty on here who post political stuff which you appear to be happy to engage with. Also see reference to making debates personal rather than focussing on the thread topic.
     
  14. BBB

    BBBFC Well-Known Member

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    Mate. Using 'try reading the article!' in all caps in the second sentence of the sixth response to a thread that you started really smells of spoiling for a fight.

    Properly comes across as 'I'm right, you're wrong, hear my words and understand me, little moron'.

    There's no purpose in debate here, your mind is clearly made up.

    **** knows how it got to seventy odd replies
     
  15. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Nothing personal about my Hourihane reply or the one you’ve quoted. I’d suggest it’s got way, way more personal than that in this thread.
     
  16. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

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    The response with that sentence in upper case was based on frustration in response to the poster saying "I have not read the article but..." and promptly went on to say I was wide of the mark if I believed what was evidenced in the article (actual data regarding median pay levels) he...err.. had not even bothered to read!! That surely "is someone with their mind made up" I am happy to debate and, no, my mind was not "fully made up" as you say regarding other elements of my OP.

    Robustly defending a PoV is not spoiling for a fight and if you read the posts later in the thread especially the 'too and fro' between myself and Mansfield Red I lost out on one of my initial assertion that the majority of people were against the drivers' strike although some posters said most people supported it whilst others presented evidence and reasons as to why it was not clear cut.

    I also acknowledged that I can be opinionated and Perhaps if you read all the thread to its conclusion you may see how it did get to 70 odd posts, there are some interesting comments from post #61 onwards. Donny-Red, Orsenkaht, Mansfield-Red and jptykes raised some interesting points. A couple of posters, rather than actually contribute to the debate just made snide personal comments which does, admittedly annoy me.
    That said , it did get a little personal and out of hand at one point but we all managed to 'wind our necks in'. There are threads on here that get far more 'personal' as you say, so I am unclear as to why you chose this particular one to comment on. I respectfully suggest if a topic is of no interest to you it is heading in a direction you don't like then just ignore it.
     
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  17. lk3

    lk311 Well-Known Member

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    In addition to this, for those who understand better than me if everyone asking for an inflation matching increase got it and then inflation dropped would that have a positive or negative impact on the economy?
    Eg everyone gets a 15% increase(predicted inflation) and then over next 12 months drop back down to say 4%.
     
  18. jptykes

    jptykes Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure on all the ins and outs but the inflation matching rise will only cover the initial rise. Prices will still have risen a further 4% meaning wages have dropped behind the curve again.

    A drop in the inflation rate doesn't mean prices fall (unless it's a negative value), but rather that the rate of rise is slowing.
     
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  19. Brush

    Brush Well-Known Member

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    You have to remember that the UKs economy crashed much harder than the rest of the major economies during the pandemic. So a higher percentage growth starting from a far lower base looks good on paper but is in fact worse. 7.4% of sweet FA is still sweet FA.
     
  20. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    Generally 3 things happen under a Tory government - an immediate spike in unemployment (this happened under Thatcher and Cameron - and also Major), generally followed by a spike in inflation (also under Thatcher and Cameron) and a significant increase in government borrowing. These are generally followed by increases in poverty, alcohol and mental health issues and increases in levels of crime as the effects of the above kick in for the populace.

    The Tories are not the party of good governance, or a good economic record or even tough on crime. What they are, is the party of good PR.
     
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