Souness - men's game.

Try Italy, sounds like the land of milk & honey compared to here

 

As a relatively 'woke' person (go me), I just thought it was poor punditry. I didn't start stamping my feet and moaning or "virtue signalling" (whatever that means). I just thought it was simplistic garbage, where a pundit was encouraging players to kick lumps off each other instead of playing footy.

But then from Souness, I'm not sure I expected owt less.

 

Seriously? That's what makes you want to leave the country?

That's like having a wife who is shagging around, doing heroin, clubbing seals and spitting in the face of toddlers and saying you want a divorce because she doesn't put the lid back on the toothpaste tube.

And I don't agree with the outcry against Souness, but I can see how it could be misinterpreted.

 

Yes, but that isn’t “manly behaviour” is it?

 

I read it as he liked it when players kicked lumps off each other - like the dinosaur he is.

But I've been wrong before - as you know!

 

As a coach of U12s this season coming, there are far more full blooded challenges and far less feigning injuries/gamesmanship in kids football.

 

His complete lambasting of Paul Pogba for a start. I'm not a fan of Pogba by any stretch, but some of the comments Souness was coming out with was embarrassing.

 

Fair enough. Although if anyone is deserving of a lambasting, Pogba must be near the head of the queue.

He doesn't seem out of touch to me however. He sometimes sticks his neck out but that's what can make him worth listening to.

My gripe with him is that he comes across as humourless.

 

As I say, I'm not a fan of Pogba's either, but Souness became very personal, and I think it boiled down to him not fully understanding the direction the game had gone in.

He had this idea of what Pogba should be, because Utd paid £100m for him. But that's not Pogba's fault. I think he got so far down the rabbit hole at one point, that he struggled to climb back out. There was one game where he criticised Pogba for not working hard enough in the build up to a goal, despite the fact he'd assisted the 4 goals Man Utd had scored before it. And another where he criticised Pogba's mentality, after a game where Pogba didn't even play. I think it boils down to Souness not understanding why Pogba is popular.

As you say, he's very humourless, and I think with how in the public eye both players and pundits are, you need someone on a punditry panel who is much more conscious of the presence of social media.

 

Seems like he was talking very specifically about the situation in the mens game and how refs are letting things go more - like in his day. I get how in this day and age you have to remain stubbornly gender neutral - to the point where you see public bodies/ people talk about “people who menstruate” because you can’t use the label “woman” anymore but this is just another bunch of people on social media signalling how right on they are and are engaged in outrage wars.

 

That's nothing to do with this instance though, the term man up in football is usually used when they are moaning about being tackled or throwing themselves on the floor etc. If you can't take physical contact you shouldn't be playing a sport that allows it.

 

Interesting choice of words considering the context of the thread.

'The guy has balls'. By this you meant he has courage. It's exactly the same use of our language as 'It's a man's game'. By this Sourness meant the game had become physical. Not necessarily outside the rules, but using strength and physical contact to win back the ball or retain possession.

We have metaphors and idioms within British English where manliness, masculinity and even the physiology of the male body is used to describe certain character traits: strength, courage, physicality, showing no emotion etc. We don't all use such phrases. but we all understand the meaning, with no ambiguity, because they are commonplace and a fabric of our language. Should we? I don't know, there's certainly a debate to be had there. I do know that the people who use such phrases don't mean any harm by them, they're just using our language to convey meaning in a way they know people will understand. You knew we would understand what you meant when you wrote 'the guy has balls' and you meant no malice. Souness knew we would understand what he meant when he said 'it's a man's game' and he meant no malice. Bethany England meant malice. That was the whole point of her Tweet.

I don't like Souness. I don't think this type of figurative expression is particularly helpful, but crucially, it is not deliberately hurtful. Souness is guilty of a lot of things, but not here. I don't know anything about Bethany England. I assume, as she's being quoted, she's quite famous. I think deliberately misinterpreting someone's words and using your fame and social media to generate a hate campaign against someone is a pretty low thing to do. Even if her target isn't, from my experience of him, a very nice individual. (I also remember the McHale incident referred to earlier in this thread. For those that don't, Souness was unbelievable that evening. One of the best midfield performances I've ever seen either live or on TV. He was also nasty. It's difficult to describe just how dirty he was. He shouldn't have been sent off, he should have been arrested. And that's how he always played. He was so talented, but he was horrible.)

 

Absolutely spot on , I despised him .
But his achievements were pretty much up there.
I remember him crocking Mchale .
However I wouldn't witch hunt him for miss use of terms in 2022