Death penalty.

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Hooky feller, Aug 24, 2022.

  1. Hooky feller

    Hooky feller Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2016
    Messages:
    17,651
    Likes Received:
    20,111
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Retired, full time grandad.
    Location:
    Mapp.
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I write this with a heavy heart. I know it probably doesn't deter gun shooting. But I find myself questioning my resolve on occasions like this, as I've never advocated it. The incident in liverpool has had me, and I'm sure most, if not all of us in tears. I hope the perpetrator suffers solitary at least. For all of his remaining years if caught.
    RIP Olivia. xxx
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2022
  2. TitusMagee

    TitusMagee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2018
    Messages:
    8,778
    Likes Received:
    13,611
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Silkstone Common
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    It's a no from me. I'd personally rather die than spend decades behind bars.
     
    Redblueunwhite and Redhelen like this.
  3. Sup

    Superhiggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2016
    Messages:
    784
    Likes Received:
    897
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Its called a deterrent which doesnt seem to exist for any crime these days.
     
    Stephen Dawson likes this.
  4. Mat

    Matt R C Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2018
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    247
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    The death penalty is mainly retribution - in all the countries in the world that have it - it’s not preventative as people continue to commit capital crimes. The Liverpool case is heartbreaking - the best we can hope for is life means life with no chance of release - I’m pretty sure the offender will be caught and fairly soon
     
  5. man

    mansfield_red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    10,487
    Likes Received:
    17,430
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    No. It's barbaric, doesn't work as a deterrent, is more expensive and there's no way to reverse it when you inevitably execute an innocent person at some point.

    There's no justification for it unless you want the state to carry out cold blooded revenge against its subjects, in which case you may as well move to a Taliban/IS controlled area.
     
  6. Marc

    Marc Administrator Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    28,399
    Likes Received:
    23,456
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    It’s a definite no from me. Totally understandable why certain incidents trigger the debate, however I just don’t believe that’s the answer in a civilised society. I’d like to think I would still hold that view if I had lost someone to a crime as terrible as this.
     
  7. Spuggy

    Spuggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2017
    Messages:
    1,914
    Likes Received:
    1,362
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Transport/Warehousing
    Location:
    Brierley
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Awful whats happened to that little girl in Liverpool, hopefully they will find the scumbag that did this soon.

    On the death penalty, watch a film called Trial By Fire and then come back to me.
     
    Redhelen likes this.
  8. wak

    wakeyred Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    9,832
    Likes Received:
    8,595
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    the clues in my imaginative online moniker
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Countries which routinely kill their citizens in order of most to least- China, Iran, Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, USA, Somalia.

    Just think about the message it sends if we join that "gang", I find it quite funny that your hang 'em high brigade who are most vocal about state sanctioned murder are probably the same people who don't like Muslims but are unaware of their burning desire to join mostly Muslim countries in killing their citizens.
     
  9. Hooky feller

    Hooky feller Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2016
    Messages:
    17,651
    Likes Received:
    20,111
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Retired, full time grandad.
    Location:
    Mapp.
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    That is why I put it as I did. My last sentence shows where I still am. Given I hope something like that happens.
    As you say you would like to think you'd still hold that view. I put myself in the position how I would feel if it was one of my loved ones. Questioning myself.
     
    ScubaTyke, Redhelen and Marc like this.
  10. JamDrop

    JamDrop Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    18,594
    Likes Received:
    19,465
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Leeds
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    It’s been proven to not be a deterrent and can actually drive people to commit further crimes through desperation. Once a criminal knows they are going to be killed as soon as they are caught they have nothing to hold them back and will do anything to remain free, including killing police and framing other people. It may even result in more guilty people going free as they wouldn’t ever admit guilt when caught, making trials drag on and jurors unwilling to sentence people to death in they have any doubt.

    It is more expensive than keeping them locked up.

    It creates more murderers out of the people carrying out the execution.

    It punishes the criminal’s family and friends and may even turn them to revenge.

    Innocent people are killed.

    I can’t see any good reason for it whatsoever other than a thirst for blood in revenge. More deaths can never be the answer in a civilised society.
     
  11. Stephen Dawson

    Stephen Dawson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2018
    Messages:
    36,221
    Likes Received:
    30,987
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    It had me in tears too. I watched something about the Wests last night and one of his victims was 8.5 months pregnant when she was murdered and mutilated. That must mean that the baby was murdered too.

    Just makes you sick to the stomach.

    As for the death penalty I'm against it too. However, I wouldn't be averse to kama kicking in.
     
  12. Marc

    Marc Administrator Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    28,399
    Likes Received:
    23,456
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    The cost point is interesting. Without going away and doing the research, why is that believed to be the case?

    I guess I’m comparing extremes here, but what would make a trial and execution, taking mebbi 2-5 years, more expensive than say, a whole of life sentence of 60+ years?

    Not disagreeing, just genuinely curious.
     
  13. man

    mansfield_red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    10,487
    Likes Received:
    17,430
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Legal challenges
     
  14. LiverpoolRed

    LiverpoolRed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2005
    Messages:
    14,733
    Likes Received:
    6,894
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Liverpool, Liverpool, United Kingdom, 105653082800
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Certainly not a deterrent - America proves that one. Also far more expensive than locking someone up - some states in America are considering dropping it to save money in these financially uncertain times.

    In this instance I'd prefer them to rot in jail for all eternity.
     
    Redhelen, Brush and Stephen Dawson like this.
  15. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    16,668
    Likes Received:
    17,691
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I think this is a point the majority of us won't be able to answer as we've not experienced it and hopefully never do. I'm sure if I lost a loved one to something barbaric and completely without motive, my emotions would rule my head and it would be difficult for me to understand why the death penalty doesn't exist.

    Doesn't mean I support the death penalty at all, but you only have to read through the BBS and search for the right key words and there's many a comment posted after an abhorrent incident in which someone is harmed (physically or mentally).

    I think the death penalty will eventually be phased out over the next decade or two in the more advanced countries like the US. However, the data is pretty weak in that it tends to compare homicide rate by state and not factor in the living conditions or demographics of that state. It's easy to go Texas is x deaths per capita and California is less, but what are living conditions, poverty, drug crime, gang crime, etc. The better argument for removing it is more around the effects on people, the cost, what it signals to communities, etc.
     
    John Peachy and Stephen Dawson like this.
  16. Stephen Dawson

    Stephen Dawson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2018
    Messages:
    36,221
    Likes Received:
    30,987
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I think the hankering for the death penalty stems from the judicial system. People can commit murder and be back amongst us after 12 years. That just rubs it in the noses of the victims and their families. If life meant life I doubt these discussions would crop up after every killing. I think it hits harder when a child is involved or a pensioner. However, every victim has suffered an abhorrent crime. The loss of their lives.

    That's why I'm against the death penalty because it's tied up in emotion. Hopefully none of us will be in the situation where we're thinking about wanting the death penalty brought in.
     
  17. Brush

    Brush Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    16,959
    Likes Received:
    15,945
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Ex-IT professional
    Location:
    Swadlincote, South Derbyshire
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    A full life term is a far worse punishment than hanging. In this particular case the killer would be reviled as a child murderer by the other inmates who would make things even worse for him.
     
  18. man

    mansfield_red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    10,487
    Likes Received:
    17,430
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    No chance. The US is going backwards at a rate of knots.
     
  19. LiverpoolRed

    LiverpoolRed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2005
    Messages:
    14,733
    Likes Received:
    6,894
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Liverpool, Liverpool, United Kingdom, 105653082800
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)

    Some are to save money - costs 70 million dollars a year to have a death penalty
     
  20. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    16,668
    Likes Received:
    17,691
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Your opinion. I think 20 years is a long time when you compare now vs. late 90's or the late 90's vs. the late 70's.
     

Share This Page