Death penalty.

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Hooky feller, Aug 24, 2022.

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  1. Hooky feller

    Hooky feller Well-Known Member

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    I write this with a heavy heart. I know it probably doesn't deter gun shooting. But I find myself questioning my resolve on occasions like this, as I've never advocated it. The incident in liverpool has had me, and I'm sure most, if not all of us in tears. I hope the perpetrator suffers solitary at least. For all of his remaining years if caught.
    RIP Olivia. xxx
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2022
    Hooky feller, Aug 24, 2022
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  2. TitusMagee

    TitusMagee Well-Known Member

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    It's a no from me. I'd personally rather die than spend decades behind bars.
     
    TitusMagee, Aug 24, 2022
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  3. Sup

    Superhiggy Well-Known Member

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    Its called a deterrent which doesnt seem to exist for any crime these days.
     
    Superhiggy, Aug 24, 2022
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  4. Mat

    Matt R C Active Member

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    The death penalty is mainly retribution - in all the countries in the world that have it - it’s not preventative as people continue to commit capital crimes. The Liverpool case is heartbreaking - the best we can hope for is life means life with no chance of release - I’m pretty sure the offender will be caught and fairly soon
     
    Matt R C, Aug 24, 2022
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  5. man

    mansfield_red Well-Known Member

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    No. It's barbaric, doesn't work as a deterrent, is more expensive and there's no way to reverse it when you inevitably execute an innocent person at some point.

    There's no justification for it unless you want the state to carry out cold blooded revenge against its subjects, in which case you may as well move to a Taliban/IS controlled area.
     
    mansfield_red, Aug 24, 2022
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  6. Marc

    Marc Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    It’s a definite no from me. Totally understandable why certain incidents trigger the debate, however I just don’t believe that’s the answer in a civilised society. I’d like to think I would still hold that view if I had lost someone to a crime as terrible as this.
     
    Marc, Aug 24, 2022
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  7. Spuggy

    Spuggy Well-Known Member

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    Awful whats happened to that little girl in Liverpool, hopefully they will find the scumbag that did this soon.

    On the death penalty, watch a film called Trial By Fire and then come back to me.
     
    Spuggy, Aug 24, 2022
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  8. wak

    wakeyred Well-Known Member

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    Countries which routinely kill their citizens in order of most to least- China, Iran, Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, USA, Somalia.

    Just think about the message it sends if we join that "gang", I find it quite funny that your hang 'em high brigade who are most vocal about state sanctioned murder are probably the same people who don't like Muslims but are unaware of their burning desire to join mostly Muslim countries in killing their citizens.
     
    wakeyred, Aug 24, 2022
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  9. Hooky feller

    Hooky feller Well-Known Member

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    That is why I put it as I did. My last sentence shows where I still am. Given I hope something like that happens.
    As you say you would like to think you'd still hold that view. I put myself in the position how I would feel if it was one of my loved ones. Questioning myself.
     
    Hooky feller, Aug 24, 2022
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  10. JamDrop

    JamDrop Well-Known Member

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    It’s been proven to not be a deterrent and can actually drive people to commit further crimes through desperation. Once a criminal knows they are going to be killed as soon as they are caught they have nothing to hold them back and will do anything to remain free, including killing police and framing other people. It may even result in more guilty people going free as they wouldn’t ever admit guilt when caught, making trials drag on and jurors unwilling to sentence people to death in they have any doubt.

    It is more expensive than keeping them locked up.

    It creates more murderers out of the people carrying out the execution.

    It punishes the criminal’s family and friends and may even turn them to revenge.

    Innocent people are killed.

    I can’t see any good reason for it whatsoever other than a thirst for blood in revenge. More deaths can never be the answer in a civilised society.
     
    JamDrop, Aug 24, 2022
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  11. Stephen Dawson

    Stephen Dawson Well-Known Member

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    It had me in tears too. I watched something about the Wests last night and one of his victims was 8.5 months pregnant when she was murdered and mutilated. That must mean that the baby was murdered too.

    Just makes you sick to the stomach.

    As for the death penalty I'm against it too. However, I wouldn't be averse to kama kicking in.
     
    Stephen Dawson, Aug 24, 2022
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  12. Marc

    Marc Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    The cost point is interesting. Without going away and doing the research, why is that believed to be the case?

    I guess I’m comparing extremes here, but what would make a trial and execution, taking mebbi 2-5 years, more expensive than say, a whole of life sentence of 60+ years?

    Not disagreeing, just genuinely curious.
     
    Marc, Aug 24, 2022
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  13. man

    mansfield_red Well-Known Member

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    Legal challenges
     
    mansfield_red, Aug 24, 2022
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  14. LiverpoolRed

    LiverpoolRed Well-Known Member

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    Certainly not a deterrent - America proves that one. Also far more expensive than locking someone up - some states in America are considering dropping it to save money in these financially uncertain times.

    In this instance I'd prefer them to rot in jail for all eternity.
     
    LiverpoolRed, Aug 24, 2022
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  15. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I think this is a point the majority of us won't be able to answer as we've not experienced it and hopefully never do. I'm sure if I lost a loved one to something barbaric and completely without motive, my emotions would rule my head and it would be difficult for me to understand why the death penalty doesn't exist.

    Doesn't mean I support the death penalty at all, but you only have to read through the BBS and search for the right key words and there's many a comment posted after an abhorrent incident in which someone is harmed (physically or mentally).

    I think the death penalty will eventually be phased out over the next decade or two in the more advanced countries like the US. However, the data is pretty weak in that it tends to compare homicide rate by state and not factor in the living conditions or demographics of that state. It's easy to go Texas is x deaths per capita and California is less, but what are living conditions, poverty, drug crime, gang crime, etc. The better argument for removing it is more around the effects on people, the cost, what it signals to communities, etc.
     
    Loko the Tyke, Aug 24, 2022
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  16. Stephen Dawson

    Stephen Dawson Well-Known Member

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    I think the hankering for the death penalty stems from the judicial system. People can commit murder and be back amongst us after 12 years. That just rubs it in the noses of the victims and their families. If life meant life I doubt these discussions would crop up after every killing. I think it hits harder when a child is involved or a pensioner. However, every victim has suffered an abhorrent crime. The loss of their lives.

    That's why I'm against the death penalty because it's tied up in emotion. Hopefully none of us will be in the situation where we're thinking about wanting the death penalty brought in.
     
    Stephen Dawson, Aug 24, 2022
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  17. Brush

    Brush Well-Known Member

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    A full life term is a far worse punishment than hanging. In this particular case the killer would be reviled as a child murderer by the other inmates who would make things even worse for him.
     
    Brush, Aug 24, 2022
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  18. man

    mansfield_red Well-Known Member

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    No chance. The US is going backwards at a rate of knots.
     
    mansfield_red, Aug 24, 2022
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  19. LiverpoolRed

    LiverpoolRed Well-Known Member

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    Some are to save money - costs 70 million dollars a year to have a death penalty
     
    LiverpoolRed, Aug 24, 2022
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  20. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Your opinion. I think 20 years is a long time when you compare now vs. late 90's or the late 90's vs. the late 70's.
     
    Loko the Tyke, Aug 24, 2022
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