I’ve got to admit

Given the state of the country currently, yes.

 

The state of the country according to who?

it's only fake news when it suits your cause.

 

No, just be educated & for chuff sake wake the chuff up. The Tories have been a colossal disaster. No way on Earth would Labour do any worse, it is impossible.......No?

 

I wondered where casual Tyke had gone

 

This is what lets people down on here..get educated..wake up etc when a poster goes against the grain. Forcing a view doesn't work. Im old enough and daft enough to make my own mind up.

 

My parents are retired. They're also racist, right wing, homophobic bigots. Age doesn't equal intelligence or decency

 

So we're back to the thick inference comment you referred to earlier.? Fortunately I'm none of the above and happy with most of my decisions in life to date. Shame about your parents though . I'm sure you've tried to enlighten them

 

Well said.

I think the earth is flat - go too far and you'll fall off the edge. Goes against the grain but that's what I believe. And what I believe has to be true.

Believe.

 

Watch this and tell me again why Johnson is not the worst PM in the history of our democracy.

 

I was up Helvellyn at the weekend and it looked flat to me from up there. I couldn't quite see the edge but I bet if I took my binoculars I would have seen it.

 

The working man as they call it , was turned away from labour . Historic labour voters voted for boris because of brexit . They also voted for the tories because of Nigel farage . Personally, I knew the massive benefits this area as gained from the EU. The remainers did not shout loud enough, labour did not shout enough, the left did not shout enough. They just sat there and said "don't say we told you so" . Labour mp's are not proper labour mp's anymore. They have become embroiled in trying to be liked by everyone . They deserted those staunch voters.
Corbyn never fought hard enough, he was curtailed by the momentum mob. They are to blame as much as the blue rosette mob. If they don't get their act together and reach the historic labour voters instead of the student activists types we will suffer further and further

 

Labour supporters have always been a mix of ordinary workers (many of whom held some very right wing views - but voted labour as they ‘supported’ workers), student activist types, and the liberal middle class.

Thatcher weakened Labours core vote by siphoning off the well paid working man (the ten Bob millionaire types many think of as the ‘average’ working class Tory).

Blair managed to win many of those back by watering down Labour and being ‘kind to business’.

Then came the rise of the Brexiteers, they didn’t attract working class voters by appealing to their social conscience, they attracted them by exploiting their fear of foreigners, and in doing so; they completely fractured the traditional labour vote. Most of the former labour voting working class will never return to Labour, ‘cos labour is a party that would prefer us back in the EU’, even though Corbyn and Starmer both tried to attract them, they’re distrusted on the EU.

I strongly agree with you that the Left never put up a strong enough pro EU argument to counter the attractive right wing anti-immigration stance, however they were working against a huge media operation, funded by the Russians and using illegal tactics, that’s a hell of a tide to turn.
But I disagree that Labour hasn’t provided a credible argument, they’re just drowned out by a very powerful pro Tory media

 

Must....step....away......

 

So; if you want to know who’s shaping the future of our country…

 

She sounds like every other mp. They are all in it for their own agenda. Corruption, and back handers is not only blue rosette.

 

You have to be careful who you call "the working class". Many (2-3million) of those who would be working class were EU citizens who used freedom of movement to come to the UK and work in jobs that the British wouldn't work in - and were then denied a vote in something that affected them greatly. Another group are immigrants from the former India (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka), who were told that Brexit would allow more migration from their home countries. Another group were the British left-behind who were told that Brexit would stop migration.

There is a big difference between the traditional working class in London, and the working class in towns like Barnsley or rural areas like Penistone.

Its not like the "working class" is one group, but those who were traditional Labour supporters were often just as nasty or intolerant as the traditional Tory voters - they just thought Labour might help them more.

 

So what your basically stating is the old labour voters are intolerant and nasty? These are the voters that turned against Corbyn are they not.
Should labour try and win these voters back or are they now going for the far left brigade? If so, hows that going to get them in power?

 

That’s a weird interpretation of the issue. Unless you’re aware of the secretive left wing cabal funded from my taxes?

 

Yes.

I can forgive and accept people voting for Cameron at the start after Brown - I could never have but I get it - but how anyone could have in good conscience voted for Boris at the last election baffles me beyond words.

 

Are you for ******* real?

I seriously hope you’re on a deliberate fishing trip, and winding us up.