Formula 1

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by pompey_red, Sep 11, 2022.

  1. pompey_red

    pompey_red Well-Known Member

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    Just noticed they finished todays race under the safety car…
     
  2. Mis

    MiserablePontyEnder Well-Known Member

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    Aye - Different rules when Verstappen is leading.
     
  3. S74 Red

    S74 Red Well-Known Member

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    What should they have done differently?
     
  4. Mis

    MiserablePontyEnder Well-Known Member

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    The track appeared to be clear (though I didn't have the sound on!) with 1 lap remaining. So why not restart it?
     
  5. YT

    YT Well-Known Member

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    They could have let just the cars between Max and Charles unlap themselves and have a final lap race to the line…

    Like Abu Dhabi.

    They didn’t, though, because that’s not protocol.

    A further admittance that the sport embarrassed itself last year and the wrong driver ended up winning the championship, because they changed the rules on the fly.

    Max will deservedly win this year’s championship. He’s been the best in class, comfortably. Which just adds to the absurdity of that finale last year.

    Sad thing is - in moments like that, late in the race incidents, they should just red flag it regardless. And let everyone go back to the pits and put fresh tires on. Potential for a grandstand finish, off the grid restart.

    Would have been more palatable in Abu Dhabi and more palatable today.
     
  6. Redstone

    Redstone Well-Known Member

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    Agree about the red flag, even if they went cautious and had a rolling restart ot would be a better option.
     
  7. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

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    The end was a total anti-climax and, as YTBFC posted, simply reminded us of the shambles that was AD 2021 under the stewardship of Masi as Race Director.
    Given tactical decisions re tyre choice and pitstops and the ability of some drivers to maximise tyre life are completely negated when SCs and Red Flags are deployed under the current system IMO two radical rule changes should be made which would be much fairer:
    1 If a VSC is deployed within 5 laps of the end of the race the Pit lane is closed (except for any car retiring for mechanical issues or safety reasons i.e. NO tyre changing.
    2 Any SC incident with 5 laps of the end should be Red flagged and the race restarted* from the Pit lane entrance. NO changes to cars would be allowed prior to the restart.
    * A 'timed' release system introduced to ensure cars are queued in the Pit lane in 'race' order and released at time intervals commensurate with the gap t0 the car in frontof them at the time the SC car was deployed (Lapped cars would follow the SC for an extra lap prior to entering the pit lane in order to maintain the queuing order behind the front runners. There is sufficient timing data available to make this perfectly feasible.
    In a sport where fraction of a second count and over 50, 60 or 70 laps leads are painstakingly eked out only to be wiped out by an SC, the current system makes a mockery of the sport.

    On the subject of MV. There is no doubt he is incredibly talented and will almost certainly go on to win many WDCs . However there is a GOAT at Red Bull but it is not him. The real star is Adrian Newey, almost. IMO certainly the greatest racing car designer of all time. The simplest explanation for the superiority of the current RB car is the fact that Adrian Newey is the only current designer who was involved when ground effect cars were raced in F1 prior to them being banned in 1982. Furthermore, his university thesis back then was on 'Ground effect'. No other designer involved in the sport has anywhere near his level of experience, hence all the porpoising etc. that they all experienced at the start of this season but RB to a far lesser degree. The only criticism, of AN was that he is so innovative that his cars were often considered 'fragile' and prone to mechanical failures, although the past few seasons there has been little evidence to support that view.
     
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  8. Tykeored

    Tykeored Well-Known Member

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    What really winds me up about last years farce is that they had plenty of opportunity afterwards to rectify the **** up but still chose to let it stand. It would have been better to end the season without a champion driver at all than let Verstappen keep it.
     
  9. cudeth red

    cudeth red Well-Known Member

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    It just gets more and more tedious as a so called sport
     
  10. Marc

    Marc Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I’ve not paid any attention whatsoever to it this year, for whatever reason. Didn’t even realise it was nearly finished!
     
  11. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

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    There was a simple get out too. MV, albeit momentarily, stuck his Nose in front of LH before they crossed the start/ finish line at the restart. A 5 second penalty would given LH the win. Masi/Stewards even threw that appeal out saying the SC had pitted when the incident occured so no rules were broken which is nonsense.
     
  12. SuperTyke

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    I am possibly wrong but I didn't think that was the reason they threw it out. I thought they threw it out because it was something that happen regularly under the safety car (apparently). I personally think that once he had absolutely ballsed up by restarting the race there was nothing the FIA could do. They couldn't re-run the race, they couldn't pretend max hadn't overtaken Lewis, they were stuck. A bit like if a ref gave a penalty that was never a penalty. After the game there's nothing that can be done no matter how wrong it is. They should definitely have used the experience to make cast iron changes to make sure it could never happen again though and they haven't. The race director yesterday could so easily have restarted the race, or not. They've left it in exactly the same situation as before which is madness.


    I like your ideas but I can see problems with them. Sometimes a car does need new tyres at the end of the race so how do you decide who genuinely does and who doesn't? I guess they could just pull everyone into the pitlane and the entire grid change tyres, that would be fair I suppose.

    The timed release is an interesting one but I don't think that would work either, some cars are faster I certain sections of the track and others are faster in others so 0.3 second gap could easily become a 0.7 second gap just because of where they're forced to start from.

    One idea that could work is by letting cars carry on behind the safety car but without those laps counting so if there's 6 laps left and the safety car comes out for 4 there's still 6 left when it goes in. All they'd have to do there is allow cars to carry an extra amount of fuel so instead of 110kg let them carry 130kg. If a team decides not to carry the extra and it runs out of fuel well who's fault is that?
    Alternatively every time a safety car would usually come out they could put the VSC on and order all cars back to the pits every single time. The when the track is clear they proceed round for one lap with the lead car doing VSC speeds and everyone else forced to wait behind. That would allow the lead car to pull away randomly after the safety car line just like they do now but does away with the need for a car leading them round.

    They also need to be much much quicker at clearing stopped cars too. No way should Danny rics car have taken that long to clear. But then I also think tracks should have spaces where the cars can actually take a hard right and pull off the track to go behind a barrier instead of just pulling up in front of a gap and then we have a safety car while they push it back through the gap.


    Also agree regarding Newey. The single best designer there is. Begs the question who was it at mercedes designing the best car by far for almost a decade? One person? A team? Or was it purely the engine?
     
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  13. Redstone

    Redstone Well-Known Member

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    Personally I would just do away with the unlapping of the cars before the restart. Would save a lot of time.
     
  14. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

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    Couple of things.... not sure any car pits for tyres in the last few laps unless they have a serious problem or the lead cars can afford a stop without losing a place and going for the 'fastest lap' extra point. Also, whilst the slight variation in gaps due to some cars being faster on different parts pf circuits is true, those differences are marginal and it would still be fairer than seeing a hard won 10 second gap, for example , disappear due to the current system where, in effect what has gone before is negated. In extreme cases it changes the eventual outcome (see LH/MV AbuDhabi 2021)
    That said, although it still removes the original gaps between positions that my 'timed release' solution offered, provided cars are not allowed tyre changes in the pits, your idea of VSC-pits-1 lap under VSC conditions seems workable, requires less complex processes and change than my idea and is far better than what we have now.
    Sunday was another fiasco but none of the powers that be seem capable of thinking out of the box. F1 for all its glamour keeps scoring own goals and loses a bit more credibility each time, although most of the new target fan base(e.g. the 'Orange army') seem more interested in following individuals than the intricacies of the technical tactical aspects of the sport.
     
  15. Andy Mac

    Andy Mac Well-Known Member

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    I was into F1 in a big way when I was young. Was a fan of the JPS team due to a school friend. Loved the action, thrills and spills, except obvs when it went too far, a la Ronnie Petersen.
    Proper sport, proper skill.

    Started watching again in recent years, due to son #1 loving it, and was fortunate enough to go to my first GP this year. Amazing atmosphere - a fan experience only rivalled by football. I was blown away. And the glamour of the colours, the noise, the track .......... I was blown away (Senna memorial added to the feeling of history). But then the racing. It was as good as all over after 6 laps, and the constant SC / VSC made it a bit of a damp squib. Not the sport I remembered.

    Obviously I never want to see another Senna incident, but I would like to see proper racing; really going for it and rules that favour sport. Hope it gets it's act in order cos it was an absolutely class weekend.
     

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