So Boris Johnson

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by SuperTyke, Sep 19, 2022.

  1. Dar

    Darfield138 Well-Known Member

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    Did they look at the material? There are different levels of access to intelligence. The cabinet and the pm and inner circle have greater access. But hey ho. Facts eh?. When the pm tells parliament he's seen the intelligence they have a right to rely on him, especially as most were labour MPs. I seem to recall a couple of his cabinet ministers (who may have seen the intelligence -or lack thereof) resigned.
     
  2. Hooky feller

    Hooky feller Well-Known Member

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    He's a ctun. Of the highest order.
     
  3. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    The material in question was placed in the House of Commons Library, as I recall. I can believe many things about MP's, many of whom are terrible. But I struggle to believe that any MP would have voted in those debates without reading what was available. Robin Cook and Clare Short (eventually) resigned on the point of principle. Blair made clear his own view but subjected himself to the Commons votes with an indication he would step down if the vote were lost. Given his evasion of the weapons inspectors and his previous history in Kuwait, it was not an unreasonable conclusion to come to that Saddam possessed the weapons. We now know that was incorrect, but nobody did for sure then. My point is though, that Blair does not carry sole responsibility for the war, which would have happened with or without us. Former Cabinet Minister Alan Johnson (a very sober judge, in my view) in one volume of his memoirs makes clear that faced with the same decision in the same circumstances he would take the same decision again.
     
  4. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    Looking at the voting records, without Tory support the motions would not have passed due to the size of the Labour revolt. Indeed, Mary Truss is the first PM not to vote in favour of the Iraq War - only because she wasn't an MP at the time.
     
  5. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    Not necessarily. There are documents that are at a level of clearance above that available to the various Ministers. Rumour is that the Minister cannot see the document, only be briefed on the broad details.

    As Foreign Secretary, our Alexander Johnson didn't have the top-level of clearance required to view some of the intelligence communiques.
     
  6. Harry Hough

    Harry Hough Well-Known Member

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    Thank God he wasn't still in power for the Funeral Yesterday. Liz Truss in the Pulpit doing a reading was bad enough but if it had been Boris up there.....
     
  7. Joh

    JohnSmiths79 Well-Known Member

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    didn't liz Truss sit on a committee to do away with the royals
    next thing shes involved in all the regalia @ the top table
     
  8. Gimson&theBarnsleys

    Gimson&theBarnsleys Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't even dress properly for the Queen's funeral; he looked like a tramp.
     
  9. Dar

    Darfield138 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I see where I've been going wrong all these years. The disastrous and probably illegal interventionist war in Iraq was the Tories' fault, even though they weren't in power at the time.
    In answer to another point, robin cook resigned from cabinet. Clare short voted to support the war, despite calling out Blair for being reckless at the time, but resigned from cabinet two months later. I'd stand by what I'd said earlier that cabinet ministers would get briefings on intelligence that the average mp wouldn't. I'd imagine there is an higher level still for the priminister. On that basis, what he tells parliament should be unimpeachable. On this issue at least Blair wasn't.
     
  10. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    All of which assumes that things are black and white. But in the messy world of politics, things can be anything but - especially in the face of deliberate obfuscation by a despot who has already shown himself capable of mass murder. Blair places certain material before MP's and invites them to agree with what he believes to be true. That is different to a positive assertion. And let's not forget that the Chilcot Report does not question Blair's personal belief that there was a case for war.
     

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