This is where I am with Southgate

Don’t think Howe would even consider leaving Newcastle he’s surely got the most exciting project in football in front of him.

 

I’m sorry but this just isn’t true.

This goes back to the often repeated myth that England had a top side in 2018. They really didn’t.

We’ve only had a top squad for 2 maybe 3 years at the most.

None of Rice, Bellingham, Foden, Grealish, Saka, Phillips & Mount were around in 2018. Although not available this World Cup, James & Chilwell weren’t around either.

John Stones was far from the dependable, world class centre back he is now.

Luke Shaw’s form & confidence was all over the place & Ashley Young played left back / left wing back.

He’s essentially had two tournaments with a top quality squad. Lost one on pens & then lost narrowly to the best team on the planet.

As for 2018, we didn’t sit back through tactical choice. We had a midfield with Lingard & Alli in it, two midfielders who don’t press whilst Croatia had Modric, Rakitic & Brozovic all in their prime so naturally they dominated possession.

 

Agreed. I think the next Euros is probably going to be the peak for our squad, at least in the short to medium term. A lot of players won't have reached their peaks yet but equally there's no sign of anyone coming through who is anywhere close to Kane's quality and I can see that really holding us back.

 

So let's do this for you. World Cup First:

Under Southgate:
2022 Qatar: Beat Senegal
2018 Russia: Beat Colombia and Sweden
3 for Southgate

Without Southgate:
2014: Didn't make it out of the group stage
2010: Lost in the round of 16
2006: Beat Ecuador
2002: Beat Denmark
1998: Lost in the round of 16
1994: Didn't qualify
1990: Beat Belgium and Cameroon (Finally, after 7 world cups, we've won more knockout games than Southgate managed in 2)
1986: Beat Paraguay
1982: Didn't win after the group stage
1978: Didn't qualify
1974: Didn't qualify
1970: Didn't win after the group stage
So, in 12 World Cups since we won it in 1966, 6 years before I was born and I'm 50 years old, we won 5 knockout stage matches, and yet Southgate won 3 in his two World Cups. But your problem with Southgate is that he doesn't win knockout games? That's where you're at with him?

And what about the Euros?
Southgate has only had one in 2020
Beat Germany, Beat Ukraine, Beat Denmark. 3 Knockout round victories (Scoring 8, conceding 1).

And the rest without Southgate as manager:
2016: Lost in the round of 16
2012: Lost after the group stage
2008: Didn't qualify
2004: Lost after the group stage
2000: Didn't make it out of the group stage
1996: Beat Spain (our only victory in the knockout stages of the Euros when we weren't managed by Southgate)
1992: Didn't make it out of the Group Stage
1988: Didn't make it out of the Group Stage
1984: Didn't qualify
1980: Didn't make it out of the Group Stage
1970s: Nothing
1968: Lost after qualifying
That's 1 knockout victory (on penalties) in 13 tournaments, yet Southgate got 3 in one tournament. But your problem is Southgate doesn't win knockout games.

Let's add it up: Since we won the World Cup in 1966, 56 years ago, we've won 12 knockout games in tournament football. Southgate, in just 3 tournaments, has won 6 of those. We've been entered into 25 tournaments without Southgate as a manager and won 6 knockout games. Southgate has been the manager for just 3 and we've also won 6. But he's the problem. Just how mental is that?

 

He’s not the problem,anyone with any knowledge of football knows what the problems are

 

Remember when we got Fabio Capello and still won nothing. It’s not the head coach/manager. It’s the team that always come up short.

 

That's a fair comment, but I think the France team on average were a lot older than the English, they have reached there prime, I'm not sure we have, another 5 years our team would be comparable with theirs from Saturday regarding champions league appearances

 

People forget Modric had been excellent for a couple of years and also won Player of the year for that season.

 

Cole
Neville
Ferdinand
Terry
Gerrard
Lampard
Beckham
Scholes
Rooney

World class players who were mainstays in the England team for years.
It's disrespectful to brush off Southgates work by saying he's achieved nothing nobody else could. It's simply not true.

 

I've said on another post' i wish he would give our young talent their heads occasionally and let them express themselves' we certainly have the talent but Gareth always seems to be a "sleep with the light on" type of guy' i do like him but its so frustrating at times..

 

I think a certain amount of pragmatism is sensible in tournament football. If you go out to try and batter other teams you leave yourself open to getting hit on the break. If we'd fully gone at France and lost to a couple of Mbappe goals on the counter he'd rightly get slammed for being tactically naive. I do think that sometimes he's too hesitant after going ahead and should be more proactive in finishing teams off - Italy in the Euros being the prime example

 

Can't agree more MR...people have either short memories or are too young to remember us being bloody rubbish...failing to even qualify on multiple occasions or going out at the group stage.

 

He's done far better than OK...he's qualified for every tournament...got through every group stage and reached a quarter,a semi, and a final.
Only Ramsey has done better by winning the final, but Ramsey also failed to qualify for the 74 World Cup...having not had to qualify for the previous two WCups as host nation 66, holders in70.

 

Look at the last 8 teams in the WC this time.

Argentina
France
Croatia
Portugal
Morocco
England
Brazil
Netherlands

Are we upset that that is the company we are keeping?

Spain, Belgium, Germany all out before us.
Being in the top 8 teams in the world is an achievement. Don’t understand why people make out that by doing that we’re underachieving.

 

You should read what former captain Tony Adams has to say in his column in the Sun today!.....”I am fed up with us being plucky losers”......it’s a good point he makes and also “ Well done England Jolly good losers!”,.....he his correct what he says and it’s about time we stopped settling for being also rans, he also claims Southgate is a good loser and I agree.....we need a bit more steel adding to the England management team

 

Why do we see reaching the last 8 as a success though? We have the richest domestic league in the world and invented the game in the first place.
Since we won the WC in 1966 many smaller nations than us have lifted major tournament silverware.

France (several times), Portugal, Netherlands, Greece and Denmark off the top of my head, there may be more?
Adams is right that we shouldn't be satisfied being plucky losers.
Though I hope he's not touting for a job......

 

I hope not touting for job too lol,......

 

In Germany, Holland, Brazil, Spain, Argentina and France they return in disgrace after a tournament exit and things are done to try and win the tournament. We reward failure too much.

I prefer the model used by the other nations listed as at least they see defeat as failure.

 

I'm not sure anybody is happy to lose, but England in this tournament did no more, or no less than what was expected. It certainly isn't grounds for sacking the coach. Unlike the Euros where his decision making pretty much cost us any chance of winning the final.

 

Would that be the Tony Adams who has a career management win percentage of 19.5 and was sacked by Wycombe after losing his first 7 games?

He's talking ***** anyway. I can't remember the last time we "settled for being also rans". We haven't been also rans at any point under Southgate, we've been genuine contenders. In the last 2 world cups we're one of only 3 teams to have reached at least a quarter final and a semi final. We were the width of a post away from the Euros.

Prior to Southgate failure was never rewarded, players and managers were slaughtered in the press (sometimes rightfully, sometimes not).

Adams is talking utter ********.