Man has irony bypass.........

I know it was a friendly ( not that there is such a thing when those two sides meet), but did we not beat Germany 6-0 albeit back in 2001. We at least got past the knockout stages this year. Look at Germany and Belgium ( the latter 2nd in FIFA rankings) . Again matching the current WCs over 90 minutes and losing by 1 goal in those particular circumstances means England is up there with the top 4 or 5 sides in the World any one of which can win on their day. Germany are rebuilding with a long way to go. Belgium have an ageing side past their sell by date. Brazil is reliant on one or two players one of which is at the end of his career England have several at,or close to,the start of their international careers. Even Stones should still be around at the next WC as a defender at 32 he should still be up to the job. IMO the future for England is bright. GS will also earn from his last two major tournaments.

 

World Cup knockout ties.

 

We should stop arguing that this England team are failures because we haven't beaten a major side in a knockout stage for years . We should get rid of Southgate cos we have failed to win a major tournament since 1966.
Since then the side and manager has changed multiple times. It is like Trigger's broom. Comparing past results and performances and using them to judge whether or not the current team is a success or failure is plain daft. Did we under achieve this time! Maybe, maybe not. But you can only judge by measuring the current squad/manager potential against the actual results achieved
.

 

By the next world cup it will be 24 years since Brazil won it.

 

There may be something to the mentality thing, particularly with the missed penalty. I think having more players playing abroad would help that, but it's unlikely to happen given the money in the Premier League.

But ultimately, we've just not been good enough. 2002, we were beaten by the best team in the tournament. 2004/06 we had a squad littered with club rivalries and cliques, we were just rubbish in the Hodgson era. This season, we have a number of players (Foden, Saka, Bellingham) who have hopefully yet to reach their peak. There's a couple of weak spots in Maguire, Henderson, and probably Shaw as well. If we can plug those gaps, have those young players have another 18 months experience and hopefully still have Kane at a similar level to now, we'll give ourselves a chance in the Euros.

 

I do think there is a problem with belief. There's no reason why we should feel we can't beat the top teams. However when I and most people see the draw for any major tournament its inevitably a reaction of, ahh but we have to play so and so in the Quarters or Semis and we feel like that's as far as we'll get.
I suspect that spreads to the players too. It happens far too often that we do underachieve when we reach the big guns.
We played very well against France and were extremely unlucky. I'd like to think that will feed their self belief but, unfortunately, I don't think the manager is the guy to reinforce that in them.

 

We froze again at 1-1. When we were 1-0 down we had clarity. Score or we're out. The game meandered towards extra time but with France getting back on top and scoring a goal which for me was coming to go 2-1 up. Then we threw caution to the wind and almost made it 2-2 by winning a second penalty. Once the penalty was missed that belief was gone. We didn't have another chance until Rashford's free-kick.

I feel we lost the game in the period after we equalized. A clear lack of belief as France in spite of creating some good chances themselves were easily pushed back when we stepped forward. Had we gone for it at 1-1 instead of having twenty minutes of calm I feel they were there for the taking. A Mourinho, Klopp, Guardiola seizes the opportunity and brings on Maddison or Grealish at that point.

 

Yep. I think we started ok but cautiously. Conceded then played well. Equalised then went back to caution. Nothing like as bad as against Italy or Croatia.
I watched a video about free climbing Half Dome in America recently. It's a sheer face with a ledge about two foot wide about half way up. I think it's called Thank God Ledge or something because when you reach it you're safe as long as you don't move off it. It's a mindset we need to get away from.

 

I’ve noticed a lot of English people saying that we’ve played a weakened French side but lots of the French press & pundits think that the injuries have helped them.

Pogba’s been underwhelming for the last few years & his injury has allowed Griezmann to play deeper & do a much better job.

Kante’s been injury probe the last couple of years & as we’ve seen at Chelsea he’s not the player he was 4 years ago. His injury has let Tchouameni in whos been outstanding.

And then there’s Giroud over Benzema where many think that Giroud links up better with Mbappe, Dembele & Griezmann than Benzema does.

The one injury that has apparently hindered them is having the weaker Hernandez brother at left back.

 

It’s all relative to who they play. I think France are the best team on the planet & we lost narrowly to them & played well so I can’t be disappointed.

If we’d lost to Morocco, Croatia, Argentina etc I’d be more disappointed & might **** the manager out.

 

I've read a lot on here about how Southgate should have done far better with "this group of players". Well let's have a closer look at them:

GK - Plays for Everton who are currently 17th.
RB - Starting RB for Man City. Missed 6 weeks prior to the tournament through injury.
CB - Currently 4th choice for Man Utd, who are 5th.
CB - Currently 4th/5th choice for Man City.
LB - Recently got his place back for Man Utd, after losing his LB spot to a new signing and missing time through injury.
CM - West Ham captain, who are 16th.
CM - Liverpool captain, not a regular starter for his club side. 33 years old.
CM - Dortmund wonderkid. 19 years old.
RW - The future of Arsenal. 21 years old.
LW - The future of Man City. 22 years old.
ST - England soon to be record goal scorer.

On the bench he called on Rashford (in and out of the Man Utd side this year), Sterling (experienced international, but not in great form) and Grealish (back up winger for Man City).

Are they actually that good? There's one Champions League winner in the side, and the back four are injury prone/average at best I would say. Maybe that's why he's seemingly a careful manager - if you go gung ho and leave Maguire exposed, then we're done for.

With the ages of the attacking talent (Saka, Foden, Bellingham, Rashford) we will continue to improve? France had 7 previous World Cup winners in the starting line up, as well as 3 Champions League Winners and 5 Europa League winners

IMO of course.

 

Would this new bloke pick different players, different formation and different style ? I doubt it.

 

I think there’s a lot of sense spoken here. I don’t necessarily agree with everything. I don’t think any of the back 4 are average or poor unless you play a high line & then Maguire’s exposed. Stones missed pre-season & under normal circumstances wouldn’t be 4th or 5th choice centre back. However he has been first choice right back whilst Walker’s been crocked so he’s still gone into the tournament match fit. Shaw’s been in really good form, Ten Hag brought his own man in & he’s fought to win his place back in the team. But definitely agree they aren’t as good as many would suggest.

Plenty have suggested we have a better squad than France but I’m not so sure. Kingsley Coman for example is on their bench & I’d take him over probably any of our wingers right now & players like Konate & Camivigna would walk into our side.

 

Of course he's wrong