Starmer v Corbyn

Again, agreed, but slowly from within. Tories need to be gone first. Step by step.

 

I tend to agree with Jimmy V most of the time. It will undoubtedly be better for the country and most people if Starmer gets into number 10. However, there will probably be no significant change. The change will largely be a managerial one with a few fringe titbits thrown to the less disadvantaged. So, to some who say get the Tories out, yes, that would be good but the replacement at the moment simply does not look too different. Simple as that. It will be a marginal change from what I can see at the moment and that's really sad when the country and vast swathes of people ate struggling, in poverty, relying on food banks ffs and finding the beloved health service crumbling around them. A Labour Government under Starmer HAS to be radical but the signs so far are that things will be managerial as I said above. If that's what people on here want because its 1 degree better than the Tories then I would say that that is also not good enough. The fptp system is crap I know but I would suggest voting for who you want to vote for. I will almost certainly vote green now and before I am accused of letting the Tories in again I would refer you to what I just said. Nice Tories will be getting in anyway.
In 1900 the LRC was formed as a progressive party under FPTP and although it took about 20 years it gradually displaced the Liberals. Vote for what you believe in and if that vote is also for a party that wants to scrap FPTP so much the better.
If Starmer proves to be a radical socialist in power I'll be delighted with his shape-shifting but at the moment I dont hold out much hope. The country needs some radical change.

 

I haven't watched this, but will do with interest when I get a moment.

I'm about to settle down and watch the match, but I'll sign off by saying that in my view electing a Starmer-led Labour party and then trying to enact change is still far better than the horrifying alternative of five more years of the current ****-show.

 

It's scary that there are still 21 months for folk to f*** this up by hankering after the ideological old guard and giving the Tories an easy target to aim at. If that happens, we'll deserve another five years of Rishi and the closet racists.

 

Closet racists like the "funny tinge" lot who have been welcomed back into the Labour Party with open arms?

Edit: Or the ones that have crossed the floor, for that matter.

 

And if Corbyn really had any regard for the Labour Party he wouldn't be talking about standing against it at the next GE.

 

Even more than that, he was specifically using the Thatcher line to have a go at the current government. He said “Thatcher called [the rule of law] the first duty of government, going on to mention justice, equality and fairness, ending with “one rule for all”. He didn’t say Thatcher’s policies or ideologies were right, or anything like that. He was using the most admired politician amongst the Tories against them, to highlight how far they have fallen. But all some people heard was “Thatcher was right”, which wasn’t even how he said it.

 

This is a great post, and for the most part I agree with it, but on top of all the other issues with Starmer's centrism I found the conduct of the Labour party during Covid to be so morally repugnant and beyond the pale, with such a flagrant disregard for the working class that I have to have some way of expressing my disgust at that and therefore with sadness the next one will be the first ever GE where I vote elsewhere (most likely Lib Dem)

 

He's not said he will stand , I hope he does , wins , and Starmer needs his vote in a hung parliament

 

In that case you won’t get one. You’ll get the same far right party with a mandate to go even further right (if at all possible)

 

Could you provide some evidence of his favourable view of Putin. He’s one of the few politicians that has consistently criticised Putin even when others were cosying up to him whilst he destroyed Chechnya & then Syria in more recent times

 

It’s such a dreadful scenario that as the Tories hit self destruct & any Labour leader could be elected it’s the pathological liar Kier Starmer at the head of the Labour Party.

I’ve noticed they’re no longer pretending it’s anything to do with anti-semitism as to why they’re trying to oust Corbyn.

I suppose after the leaked report, the Labour Files, the Panorama expose, Neil Coyle, Trevor Phillips, Angela Smith, Batley, Iain McNicol, doing nothing about the attacks on Abbott & Begum etc the idea that Starmer’s Labour Party see racism as anything other than a political weapon is pretty laughable.

Are there any decent independents in Barnsley area?

 

As someone who is an unwaged carer I pray for a Labour government and whatever hue of red it is will be better than these two hats that are in at the moment.

I rarely comment on the political threads on here because I feel views are entrenched but dear God if you're on the left of politics please do those of us who are under the cosh a bit a favour and make sure Starmer beats Sunak because that's the only choice we're getting.

 

It's such a tough call. As I've said before, I consider myself pretty lucky that I live in a rock solid labour constituency. I can quite happily vote against my MP - the right-wing Starmer-supporting warmonger that he is - knowing that he's going to get in anyway. I'm honest enough with myself to say that I'd have a much trickier decision to make if I were in a marginal.

What a ****** up system.

 

I think Starmer gets a bad rep for being pragmatic. He's got to appeal to the swing voters, as sadly there's not enough people who'd vote for a truly revolutionary left wing manifesto.

We all know this. There's no way he can beat the Tories without having a mass appeal.

Now where it's fair to criticise him for being uninspiring and not giving us his vision for the country, it's not fair to criticise him for not being Corbyn. Corbyn lost twice.

He's not stupid and he's not a tory. He's a capable guy with respect for the position. Things would improve under him. Hopefully he gets to change things for the better.

 

Suggesting that the evidence in the Salisbury poisoning case be handed over to Russia to analyse might be one example; his opposition to assisting Ukraine and his general view of NATO might be others. Yesterday's man.

 

Not really, no.

It's being told for the seventeenth time just to hang on one more time and we'll get our turn, just once that ladder has been well and truly pulled up.

And don't give me any sh*te about 15% mortgages in 1987. They were calculated off 3x 1 person's salary, not 5x 2 people's. There is no equivalence, especially not now the base rate is back above 4%, wages have been stagnant for over a decade and there's how many fifty-somethings sat doing **** all on their final salary pensions, couples sitting pretty in four-bed semis getting a new bathroom or kitchen every other year cos they've nothing else to spend the money on.

See also: childcare, tuition fees, EU membership, 1.5% warming. If you were born post-1985 in this country you've been well and truly shat on.

*That's* why young people's attitudes are becoming very much 'what's the f*cking point?'. At least Corbyn was positive about nationalisation and infrastructure (while costing every planned move, an unprecedented step due to the levels of abuse he received).

Having some of what we want? What exactly is it that Starmer is offering? Not being a fascist? It's hard to look worse than the current government, but it's pretty poor to not define in what ways you'll be better, just saying you'll not be them and chuck us the odd bone. It's taking the vote of the youth for granted. Again. Look at Sheffield Council to see how that works out.

 

Agree with this.

Johnson was inspiring (see 2019 victory) and had a vision for the country. Unsurprisingly, it turned out to be b0ll0cks. Ditto Truss. The fact is that due to slow growth, an ageing population and brexit we can't as a country afford big initiatives that don't yield instant returns. Any plans claiming differently will swiftly be exposed by the financial markets, as Truss and Kwarteng found out. Steady away is the only way for now. Sunak knows that, for all he tries to create good headlines. Look behind his policies and one sees little of substance. His crackdown on crime will fail due to lack of supporting infrastructure following austerity, and the attack on migrants is also doomed to fail whilever we honour our international obligations. In truth, the migrant numbers are not very great anyway. But how much smarter would it be if we could process them properly and find a way to put them to work? That would begin to address our reducing population/workforce. Closer ties with Europe are essential also if we want to move our economy forward.

 

So why wasn't Corbyn elected?

 

This is a realistic answer. I'm a member too, just frustrated at how hamstrung the country is by FPTP and the need to collect the votes of people who don't actually support your party, rather than selecting a leader who actually appeals to the most.