Local Elections.

Starmer thought the only way to win was to lie. If he was confident that his policies were popular he wouldn’t have lied now would he. He can’t win the argument on the party, let alone the country.

Do you think he would have been elected on his centre right ticket? Pro privatisation. Anti union. Anti worker etc. clearly not or he would have fought on that ticket .

As Peter Oborne said. Blair didn’t win the Labour leadership by pretending to be Tony Benn.

 

high score in ******** bingo. Well done.

 

Instructive that the mood music coming out of Labour changed today. Given the mediocre LE performance that points to a hung parliament they now won’t rule out a coalition with the LDs after dismissing it last year. Though of course Starmer lies so much he might just have got confused

 

Is this what you think or are you just parroting it out of some newsfeed?

 

Clive Lewis v Wes Streeting would be an interesting one if Streeting survives the sexual misconduct stuff. Especially if Streeting fought on his desire to privatise the NHS.

interesting times to come

 

Amongst the abuse and general idiocy. Name some actual policies that Labour are promoting that will be an improvement it different to the tories.

10 actual firm policies. Should be easy. I will give you one to start - Green New Deal (watered down but still ok)

sources range from Peter Oborne (long term centre right tory). The BBC, and others. Andrew Marr basically asked Starmer today why would anyone trust you given that you no longer believe in any of the things that got you elected as leader. Must be a member of the crank left.

Do you think a projected vote share of 35% based on LE performance as extrapolated by John Curtis (UKs foremost pollster) is good? Is it success against the most inept Govt in living memory? Why hasn’t Starmer cut through more? Why is he projected to only do as well as Corbyn in percentage terms? As you allude to those votes may be targeted better through tactical voting but they remains to be seen. Why isn’t the progress there to make tactical voting irrelevant

 

Here’s Chris Mullin Blarite cabinet minister. Definitely crank left…

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...tisemitism-chris-mullin-diaries-b2332452.html

 

Would you say centre right Peter Orbone - a traditional one nation tory is crank left ? Instead of abuse try engagement. If you believe thst commentators like Orbone are wrong state why.

 

Ironically the majority of people when polled do think nationalisation of key infrastructure is a good idea. Indeed many of Corbyn's policies were and are very popular. It's Starmer who has walked back on them and has broken his promises to implement them.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...water-or-energy-rachel-reeves-says/ar-AAZVW7r

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/half-of-tory-voters-want-energy-to-be-nationalised-9mrtfp5fs

 

So it should be a formality for the more left-leaning members of the party to challenge him then? So where is the challenge?

 

I think it's a good idea - in abstract. But it comes up against a huge dilemma in the real world. Do you take the privatised utility companies back with compensation, in which case where does the money come from? Or do you take them back without compensation, in which case unforseen effects flow from the hit to savings/investments/pension funds which are invested in utility company shares? The rabid Tory media would have an even bigger field day with that one.

 

Well presumably Starmer knows how he intended to do it, because he promised it in the first place.

 

And just maybe pandemic/war/cost of living crisis/Truss & Kwarteng spooking the markets have forced a more pragmatic view on him. Realistic pragmatism trumps blind ideology in my book.

 

When there's enough money for the markets there's no need. When there's no money for the people there's still no need.

Apologies all round from the wealthy. I'm sure.

 

You can excuse lying as realistic pragmatism? Well then I think we should excuse Boris Johnson and cut him some slack....
The fact that Starmer happens to be a Labour bloke is irrelevant.If he's a liar, which he is, then the colour of the rosette is irrelevant. He lied to become leader, blatantly. Think about it. It stinks. It says more about his moral character than it does about his pragmatism. As to the world issues that you suggest have caused a convenient change in opinion I put it to you they are all red herrings and further attempts to excuse the behaviour of a liar simply because he has a red rosette. Starmer simply had no intention of honouring any of his pre-leader promises as one or two Labour people (Margaret Hodge eg) have mentioned. Deliberately lying to people is a despicable thing to do at the best of times, and, similarly so when in a position of authority amongst people who trust you. Wouldn't you agree?

 

Okay. Nothing's changed since 2020 then? Right you are!

 

Never said that. You're ignoring the point

 

It's more that I don't accept it. You can intend to do something at one point in time, and you can change your mind in the light of circumstances and what is possible. That is not lying, it's changing your mind. Now you can criticise Starmer for changing his mind. I happen to think it's more of a strength. But you pays your money and you takes your choice.

 

I agree with your second sentence but with regard to Starmer himself from what I learn about him the more I think he is simply an opportunist liar (hence the Margaret Hodge reference). You may think differently. One of us is nearer the truth than the other. Basically, in my book he's an odious, shape-shifting vacuous chap with no genuine principles at all. We'll have to agree to differ, and if and when he becomes PM we'll have to see what Labour does in power. At the moment I see nothing whatsoever to get enthused about apart from the weak accolade that Starmer and Labour are not the Tories.

 

They have been expelled or suspended so keep up. The rest don’t have enough members left to get past the initial barriers.

A more apposite question would be why don’t the centre right leave. They could call their party Change UK. Because that showed how much people appreciated that sort of politics.

When Starmer fails to win a majority I suspect the battle will then be between Streeting and Lewis. With membership collapsing it’s hard to call either way. Especially as Labour Right would presumably expel thousands before they were allowed to vote against Wes and possibly attempt to expel Lewis himself.