Ben Elton

Not sure that’s true. EU rules can stop state subsidies of private industries but proper nationalisation is allowed. Blair’s government allowed failed rail franchises to be run by the department of transport, several are currently in public hands.

 

My understanding is that anything already nationalised could stay in public ownership but wholesale nationalisation over private industry was not allowed, but countries could request special dispensation in certain circumstances . The franchise's though could be taken back as they expired.

 

This says different.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politi...nalise-bt-openreach-be-legal-under-eu-rules-2

 

I've heard this, but was never sure it was true. Possibly anti-competition? I suppose one benefit (and the main reason the far left voted for Brexit) is that we could correct things like this if we waned to,

 

Hmm, seems it's a bit of a grey area
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ngle-market-restrictions-labour-a8968691.html

 

Yes you're right, I think this is one of the many areas where EU rules are open to interpretation and operated differently by different countries....

 

Having read the article, I'm not sure it relates to the railways issue ( getting into a legal minefield here). It is referring to BT Openreach which is a wholly British owned Company.

According to The Evening Standard..
''Although the Railways Act 1993 barred the UK state from running the railways, many foreign state-owned enterprises of the Netherlands, Germany, France, Italy, and Hong Kong now all run rail franchises in the UK.''

The rail network is largely foreign owned and to try and nationalise it could well lead to complaints from the current owners under EU competition law. ( that may still apply, I'm not sure tbf)

From the EU website
State Aid Overview
A company receiving government support may gain a distortive advantage over its competitors. Therefore, Article 107 TFEU generally prohibits State aid unless exceptionally justified.

State aid is defined as an advantage in any form whatsoever conferred by national public authorities to undertakings on a selective basis. Therefore, subsidies granted to individuals or general measures open to all enterprises are not covered by this prohibition and do not constitute State aid (examples include general taxation measures or employment legislation).
To be State aid, a measure needs to have these features:there has been an intervention by the State or through State resources which can take a variety of forms (e.g. grants, interest and tax reliefs, guarantees, government holdings of all or part of a company, or providing goods and services on preferential terms, etc.);

• the intervention gives the recipient an advantage on a selective basis, for example to specific companies or industry sectors, or to companies located in specific regions
• as a result, competition has been or may be distorted;
• the intervention is likely to affect trade between Member States.

''Despite the general prohibition of State aid, in some circumstances government interventions are necessary for a well-functioning and equitable economy. Therefore, the Treaty leaves room for a number of policy objectives for which State aid can be considered compatible. These exemptions can be found in legislation relevant to State aid.''

Verifying State Aid

EU State aid control requires prior notification of all new aid measures to the Commission. Member States must wait for the Commission's decision before they can put the measure into effect.

''Council Regulation No 994/98 of 7 May 1998, amended by Council Regulation No 733/2013 of 22 July 2013, enables the Commission to adopt so-called Block Exemption Regulations for State aid. With these regulations, the Commission can declare specific categories of State aid compatible with the Treaty if they fulfil certain conditions, thus exempting them from the requirement of prior notification and Commission approval.''

This link explains it...although tbh I'm no wiser on how it impacts railways.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:02014R0651-20230525

 

Basically, it's a bag of s*it....

 

I watched this last night, and whilst I agreed with most of what was said, it really angered me.

Trains from here/Sheffield to Manchester are a joke, should take no more than 30 minutes and there should be more than two faster services an hour. They are overcrowded when going to the airport often too.
They also need to take traffic off the roads to Manchester...desperately.
Trains to Barnsley randomly cancalled all the time.
The worst TOC of them all, Cross Country all over crowded whenever I'm on one. The televsion programme answered that one, re the leasing of the rolling stock. I've looked at the areas of profit, but not at the leasing firms.
The silly fare structure.
The Overcrowding of Northern Rail specifically on a Saturday when we have Derby or Wednesday at home, and they companies / SY Police just close there eyes and hope for the best.

Like so much though, there is so much wastage but the management/government look in the wrong places for it.

EDIT MORE RANT
Ever come back from London, and had to wait outside Sheffield for ages? or Doncaster? or Leeds. ALL bottlenecks. Yes, it will cost millions, possibly billions, but it needs sorting. Now. So what if we lose a road if it makes the travelling experience better for us all (including drivers)

 

Maybe the new Government should disallow foreign companies from taking rail franchises and eventually get the railways to be all British owned, that would then allow re-nationalisation (possibly).

If we can't do that then the Tories have shafted us forever....

 

Franchises have a fixed term - like when Virgin West Coast became Aventi West Coast. LNER and Northern iirc are both under government control at the moment.

 

That's true so when the current franchise expires, only allow British companies to take them on, when they inevitably fail, we will take them back. Foreign companies currently holding the franchises include companies like Avanti who are less likely to fail (bigger companies with state funding and experience of running these services).

 

Even more poignant with the news about Thames Water fiasco.