Poppy or Palestine

This is really conflicting for me

Remembrance / Armistice day is framed as those who made the ultimate sacrifice so we can have freedom and democracy and the people looking to disrupt this are wrong and deserve the vitriol aimed at them

on the other hand if those soldiers we are respecting died for freedom and democracy what about the freedom to protest? You can’t have it both ways. Freedom of expression and freedom of speech cannot be applied to situations you like or dislike and sometimes we have to suck it up and not give any attention to those purposefully being provocative and just let them get on with it. Their actions aren’t endearing me to their ‘side’

 

there will be plenty of Jewish people there. There has been on all the other marches. They may be the ‘wrong kind of Jew’ to those that support Likud but they will ge with us.

This chap was lovely on the last one

https://x.com/reverend_makers/status/1721483266056654888?s=46&t=j20zR706pmXrBtdI_7p-NQ

both the 2 minute silence and Remembrance Sunday are completely irrelevant. One will be over when the march starts and one won’t happen until the following day. Unless of course we want to shut the whole country down for the weekend cos some right wing thugs want a punch up.

it’s absolutely a peace march. A ceasefire is a call for peace. Those wishing to promote the idea of a free Palestine is also about peace. The apartheid regime breeds terrorism and violence.

You are right about the UK and it’s position on the world stage. But Britain has always been an internationalist country and we have a long history of supporting oppressed people. The marches are about people not politicians or political action. Ironically much like Remembrance Day itself.

 

I'm all for peace. I'm all for Palestinians having each and every chunk of land that has been stolen by settlers. I'm all for going back to new/old borders that would make Netenyahu's heart stop beating.

But I'm not for us having it play out perpetually on our streets.

And not when it comes to violence and desecration.

Let's do objection the English way. Even though we can't seem to do it ourselves most of the time.

 

Surely remembrance day is to remember the dead of wars not remembering the actual wars

 

Difficult to say what ‘the English way’ is. Tutting loudly? We should be more French. In Britain raise the pension age to 68 and we just sigh. In France try to raise it to 62 and there’s riots in the street.

we actually have a long tradition of defiance and street demos. The only reason women have the vote is because of that. Let’s be more like the suffragettes rather than a hollowed out shell of a country.

 

Desperation is the English way.

Kmow your Pink Floyd.

 

I agreed with this so much until the "have a long history of supporting oppressed people" bit.

Britain has been the oppressor in the vast balance of conflicts and the current one in the Middle East is born out of the UK's oppression.

 

I know that one

 

As long as it doesn't end up interfering with the remembrance arrangements which some idiots will try and do regardless of the majority, then let them protest.
It's a pointless protest, it's not as though the battling parties overseas will give a damn about a large protest in the UK. Now if they want impact, let 1 million people stand in the streets where is expected to be bombed. Then whichever side decides it's sensible to launch attacks knowing all these people are in the streets, we may see a shift of opinion. A protest over here in any number just carries zero weight.

Might sound a bit cold, but Israel and the Palestinians seem to have been at it forever, I gave up listening to the news about it years ago, now it's impossible not to hear of it. Do either side have any morals, I'm not sure they do.

 

I think innocent people being killed is wrong whoever does it out wherever it happens. I think a lot of this protest about Israel comes from antisemitism though. Otherwise where’s the marches for the 1.5 million Muslims in actual concentration camps in China? Or the ongoing massacre of the Massalit tribe in Darfur by Islamist’s? We certainly support and sell arms to Saudi Arabia and they’ve killed hundreds of thousands of Yemenis this year, where’s the mass protests over that? Common factor? Not the Jews to blame.

 

I absolutely disagree with that completely.
There's a long list of instances of Islamic/Arabic fundamentalist excess being quite rightly criticised and criticised heavily.
Saddam Hussein's genocide against the Kurds.
The Taliban in Afghanistan.
ISIS in Iraq and Syria.
Iranian crack down on women refusing to wear headscarves.
Human rights in Qatar.
Boko Haram in Africa
Just to name a few. All have been extensively covered, publicised and called out.
Anti semitism, certainly in the West, is, in ny opinion, hugely exaggerated. The suporters of continuous hardline Israeli governments have successfully created a narrative that any criticism of their policies is anti semitic. Their current government is a disgrace and a betrayal of those who died in the holocaust because they're using that tragedy as a justification and a shield to oppress Palestinians. They should be ashamed of themselves.
Both sides of the middle eastern conflict have extreme elements that are beyond the pale. Reducing the current coverage of what's going on to anti semitism is way off the mark.

 

You are right about the political classes but I’d say there’s a difference between the elite and working class people. We have often stood in solidarity with people. We supported Mandela, for example , while our politicians called him a terrorist. The same is true for Likud now.

 

one band I can’t stand. Should have quit when Syd left. Never trust an hippie!

 

If Israel 'gives it a rest' does Hamas go away? Or do they just restock and then repeat the acts of 7th October again and again until Israel doesn't exist and every Jew on the planet is killed? Not my words but those of their leadership. Israel has a moral responsibility to its people to prevent that from happening.

What's happening in Gaza is an atrocity. The solution, however, is not the status quo. Hamas are not people that want a two state solution. They're committed to continuing acts of terror and a cease fire would simply aid them in their fight. They have to be removed, just as Hitler had to be. Shame on them for using civilians as human shields.

I don't have a problem with peaceful protests. I might not agree with what they're proposing but they have a right to go ahead. But let's not pretend that all those attending these protests are pacifists. There's a minority that are simply antisemitic, want the destruction of Israel and support Hamas. They should be arrested and condemned by others at the protests, demonstrating they truly demands for 'peace'.

 

I agree for the most part, but I don't think it's possible (for me at least) to remember those who served and died, including my great grandad at the Battle of Arras in 1917, without also thinking of the sheer horror of the conditions that wars are fought in. I can't think of a more apt day for people to march to put a stop to one of the worst conflicts in most of our lifetimes, even though I can understand why some people don't see it that way.

 

Behave thissen, or I’ll send you on the Dark Side of the Moon

 

One might argue that as against a conflict which ended 78 years ago it is even more urgent to mark a 'live' war where 1,400 on one side and 10,000 on the other have already perished. If only there were the global political will, further thousands of deaths could still be averted. I'm afraid I'm pessimistic though.

 

But on the flip side, why does Israel have the right to arm itself and Palestine doesn't?

Israel being a recognised state gives it an air of legitimacy, but an unarmed Palestine will simply be erased by Israel over time through their inhumane apartheid.

 

Quite right too ! -

The Taffs have been doing that for years to the English interlopers.