At the risk of sounding like Brian the Blade 4-4-2

The period when we looked threatening offensively yesterday was the one when the midfield and forwards were in a 2-1-2 formation when Cosgrove came on in the second half. That did two things - firstly, it gave the midfield a link to the strikers and enabled them to play through the centre and then go wide (if needed) further up the pitch instead of having to go wide (slowly) across the back. Secondly, it meant we didn't have a midfield player stuck in with the back 3 leaving us with 4 players marking 1 opposition player as is normally the case and outnumbered all over the rest of the pitch. Sadly Collins changed it back at 2-1 and whatever formation the front 5 (or 6) are in it doesn't make the centre backs any better regardless.

 

Would disagree that all coaches go through the same school. Most coaches from the Championship up are international and there are a huge variety of inflences. 4-4-2 isn't played for good reason, maybe I should have been more specific, the centre of the pitch, rather than wings, gets overloaded and you become easy to play through.

I play centre mid and hate 4-4-2. You can't push up on a defensive midfielder as it leaves a huge hole behind and as such you can't press, then when the DM travels with the ball you have to make a decision when to close them, often leaving the 10 free. Every team has to have at least 3 players in centre mid these days, the best like City and Arsenal are trying to get even more in there with inverse fullbacks, like Zinchenko, and centre backs like Stones pushing up.

Martin O Neill was still playing 4-4-2 at the 2012 Euros. Ireland got utterly destroyed giving players like Modric and Pirlo time on the ball and they picked us apart. Space can be ceded on the wings if a defence is well set up, but you can't be played through in the centre.

 

4-5-1, just for summat different

 

Why are people obsessed with playing callum styles at left back?

He's never played left back for Barnsley, not once.

Left wing back or left midfield yes.. definitely.

 

The idea that any formation is outdated and old fashioned, is surely outdated itself!.
If (and thats a big 'if') a team have got the players who can play it and are maybe more suited to it. And if they are in form and are in the positions that suit them. And if the manager/coach has some good ideas that the players agree with and... well you know what I'm trying to say here lol.
And if its 4-4-2 we're talking about, then remember it was good enough for Mike Bassett.

 

And we haven't got three centre-backs good enough to play in a three.

 

A lot of formation talk is ******** anyway.

People talk like Man Utd & Arsenal played pure 4-4-2’s when they never did. When either Sherringham or Yorke played they’d drop in & be the number 10 at times, same as Arsenal with Bergkamp.

There were some that played proper 4-4-2 & never alternated but most sides would have one of the 2 dropping in to the 10 role or dropping wide with the winger tucking in to make it a 5 out of possession.

 

I'm never sure whether teams from decades ago genuinely played 4-4-2, or whether that was just how it was listed on paper. For example, United would have players like Cantona and Sheringham who were number 10s, Yorke as well to a similar degree. They had Ince, Butt and Keane as defenive midfielders long before we heard of the 'Makelele role'.

 

Yeah agree to an extent, Henry as a hybrid left winger another example.

It just shows how outdated a 'proper' 4-4-2 is as a philosophy. As mentioned elsewhere on this thread, it only works when the other team is playing the same system.

 

Five forwards, three half backs, two full backs and goalie. They where the days

 

Basset took us to within 90 minutes of prem playing 4-4-2. I remember he raised a few eyebrows but said it was the most effective for the players he had. A good coach who could change it up to work with what he had. Unfortunately, Collins has one style and doesn't have the players to match (I confess I sometimes wonder exactly what those players would look like!)

 

I'd just like to see us play further up the pitch and with intensity because the few times that we've done it this season we looked a miles better team than the 7 players within 30 yards of our goal backwards sideways stuff.

 

There are two types of managers/coaches. Those who select the best formation and let the opposition worry about the team - which leaves them vulnerable to the opposition doing their research and adapting (flooding midfield, fast wingers, etc, etc.) - or those that change for each game - which can cause confusion among the players and not leave a settled team.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both.

 

I think the best coaches are the ones that can be clear on how they want to play, but also solve any problems that occur. Ismael was brilliant at this, we improved set pieces at both ends of the pitch and got to a point where we had a high line with the back three on the half way line, but a fall back plan should teams get through the press. Of course, this plan didn't always work, no plan ever does, even Man City lose the odd game.

The most worrying thing I read about Collins on here and social media in general is about a lack of identity on how we are trying to play. Brings back memories of Schopp and Asbaghi.

 

Wingers were wingers in those days too. When I started watching the Reds, we had the very rapid Arthur Kaye, a goalscoring right winger, and Johnny McCann, a very tricky Scottish left winger. They were described once as the best pair of wingers in the Second Division. Kaye represented the Football League, and McCann played for Scotland B.