Nike England shirt, St George’s Cross

Lol

 

I’m not being funny. If it’s such a tradition to have the St George cross on the shirts, where does it appear on the current/outgoing home and away shirts?

Or the previous two, from 20-21?

The last one I can see it on is the shirt from 2018-2020. The first one I can ever see it feature on is the 2002 World Cup one. None before that. And not many since.

The 2010 featured ‘st George’s’ crosses of all sorts of colours, red included but also green purple and blue, on the shoulder.

Then next few didn’t have any cross on.

The 14/15 home shirt had a stylised cross on the inside which was in greyscale, with lines. Not red and white.

The 16/17 shirt - can’t see one on there either.

There is no ‘tradition’ of having a St George’s cross on England shirts. There’s no real tradition of the cross associated to the football team at all. In fact up to World Cup 90 and euro 92, flags carried by fans at games were as likely to be union flags as they were St George’s cross flags.

I recall the ‘England’ flag becoming more prevalent during Euro 96.

Nothing at all wrong with flying the flag and being proud to be English.

This outrage, and I don’t direct this only at you, is completely unfounded though.

It’s a stylised embellishment on a football shirt. It is not designed to offend or denigrate the flag in any way.

And it is more than fair to point out the strong correlation of the strength of feeling against this - the type of person it is from, their views in other areas, and the publication it is noted in. There’s a really strong common bond amongst a lot.

 

Sir Keir isn't happy about the badge change in his interview with The Sun.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/26839723/keir-starmer-interview-hates-england-shirt-change/

 

These days they put you in jail just for saying you are English

 

I do completely get that but for me personally I don't really see much of a connection as such with the actual saint George's flag and the England kit because growing up it wasn't on it and it's not the badge or anything, then when it was introduced it was always a stylised take on it. The first I remember was the 2001 shirt that just had one red line down the side to symbolise the flag but it wasn't actually the flag (as there was no cross). Then I remember one with red shoulders and stripes down the arms but there was no vertical lines so again no cross, one with a tapered stylish sort of a cross on the shoulder with the vertical line going to a point and being much longer than the horizontal line so again not accurate and one with the multicoloured crosses on the shoulder plus a few that I don't remember having any crosses at all. So it doesn't feel to me like the st George's cross in it's pure accurate form is really something that I associate with the England kit. It's either not there or when it is there more often than not it's a take on the cross designed in a new way each time and this just seems like one of those times.

For Welsh people I think it's different, the dragon is actually on their badge (in a different form to the flag) and I imagine they'd be angry if that was changed but I'm not so sure that they'd be particularly annoyed if for example their new kit had a black outline of a dragon in the background of the shirt or something.

 

I did say in an earlier post by all means leave it off but don't faff with it, so I guess I'm classing tradition as having the actual flag either not on the shirt or the real McCoy and not something that's been invented to change things to try and be creative or "playful" for the sake

 

Technically they aren’t 3 Lions.
It’s one Lion, a Lioness and Cub

 

Why has this particular one annoyed you but all the previous creative takes on the flag not done?

 

Agree with ST - the Welsh flag shouldn't be altered - the Dragon always facing to the Left. (The 'Dragon Flag' didn't become the official Flag of Cymru until 1959.)
Quite happy to have a different form of the Dragon e.g. black outline.

slightly O/T

What Cymru have got is a brilliant National Anthem - Hen Wlad fy Nhadau - and also the unofficial anthem 'Yma o Hyd.'

And there's the Bucket hat 'uniform.'

 

I think the designers have included it without thinking because it looked interesting and then some marketing gobshite fresh off The Apprentice has made a big deal of it. The English flag should unite and inspire, that's the purpose of any flag. There's nothing about the change in colour that is uniting or inspiring, that's just meaningless drivel and I can see why it would offend people who believe in what the flag already stands for.

 

Technically, all three of those are still lions…

 

First and foremost it looks dogger, secondly I don't even remember a St georges flag being any other colour bar red and white, people inventing things to be creative for the sake

 

This

 

I can’t get my head around anyone that would be offended by a football shirt. Insanity.

 

DHgate. Circa £11.

 

Re the controversy.
I'm a traditionalist and would go with the English flag.
As for the new design. It makes no sense whatsoever to me. Regardless of the playful update and explanation. (Someone in FA headquarters wi nowt else better to do.) For me eg. Colours of the rainbow would've meant summat. Or the equality and diversity flag
Blue background 2 yellow rectangles in the centre.

 

To be fair I didn’t read the Nike release and didn’t really associate the motif with the George Cross, I just thought it was a rubbish design.
Anyhoo

Reform UK MP Anderson dismissed the move as “virtue-signalling woke nonsense”, telling the Daily Express: “The left have a nerve to ask me why I want my country back.

“This virtue-signalling, namby-pamby, pearl-clutching woke nonsense must stop. Any more of this and I’ll be on the first flight to Rwanda.”

I’m all for the shirt to be covered in unicorns spunking rainbows if causes Lee Anderson to **** off to Rwanda!

 

Maybe it's a case of politics and modern day 'woke' nonsense, being allowed to go too far here.
If they want to put this on the England shirt collar round the back of the neck (where you can hardly see it) then fine. But let's leave it at that ehh, as it doesn't belong on there in the first place!.

 

It’s just a flag.

I like our national flags, but they are just flags after all.

They’re just coloured material on a pole, or a square/rectangle of colours on a JPEG.

It’s also just a football shirt.

 

People in Palestine, Ukraine and countless other places worldwide are dying for just those coloured pieces of material on poles.
We are incredibly fortunate to live in a peaceful, democracy where we can open a fridge, flick a switch or turn on a tap, it's more than just a coloured piece of material.