The defence for the defence?

I’ve been making a point of not posting on the day after a game, because this place turns into a kindergarten. But I just want to address the ******** that gets spouted about the defence from last season.

I’m sure we all agree that our defence is a shambles and has been all season. I’d question anybody’s judgement if they don’t think the defence has become worse throughout the season. And now the keeper’s joined in. But I keep hearing the excuse about it being a ‘new defence’ that Collins has had to deal with, cos we lost the Arsenal 1990 back 4 in the summer, or something.

When Duff came in he had a very good defender in Mads Andersen, a liability in Liam Kitching, and we brought in two defenders who turned out to be either not very good or bloody awful, in McCarthy and Cundy. I think we had a lad on loan who was okay, but he got injured, can’t remember his name. I don’t think any Reds fan would have complained had we given Liam Kitching away on a free transfer after his first season. He wasn’t playing well and was a red card waiting to happen. And I’d defy anyone to say they thought he would be a £4m player at the top end of the Championship by now. The reason he is where he is now is because of good coaching last season.

It took a while for our defence to take shape last season, and it didn’t really look to have the right balance until the middle of January, when we brought Bobby Thomas in on loan. Just like Liam Kitching having not played above L2 level when he signed for us, Bobby Thomas had never played above L1 level, having played just 19 games there, earlier that season, for Bristol Rovers. Before that he played 21 games for Barrow, and that’s it. I don’t recall anyone moaning about his lack of experience, etc. So our Premiership/Championship defence were Mads, a player we all thought was a liability before the season started and a player with very little experience, all at a lower level than us, who arrived in the middle of January.

We moan now about our level of recruitment, but McCart came on loan from a Championship side with far more experience than Bobby Thomas. Jordan Williams is still here and, as much as I kept hearing the excuse he was playing ‘out of position’ he had played plenty of games as part of a back three. More than one person I know were saying last season that he is better as a part of a back three. We also signed MDG and Lopata, both of whom received a lot of praise on here initially, but were in need of some coaching to smooth out the rough edges. Shepherd was always going to be a gamble, but the kind of gamble worth taking. Marc Roberts and Ethan Pinnock both came here as players who had only played non-league football remember.

What I’m trying to say is, I don’t see much difference in the way we recruited defenders last summer than any other year, including the summer Duff arrived. We haven’t recruited experienced centre backs for some time now, so always have rough diamonds in need of a polish and I think it is this where we see the difference from last season, more so than the actual players. Kitching was not a £4m defender when Duff walked through the door. Duff turned him into a £4m defender. And did any of us think Mads would have been playing Premiership football this season when Duff walked through the door? Not a chance. Most didn’t think he was good enough for the Premiership when Luton signed him.

Our defence now is worse than it was earlier this season, and that is unforgivable. I know some will point out that we’re missing Pines, but Pines played 4 games, that’s all, and I think people are forgetting how poor he was with the ball at his feet. If we are looking at the January signings, for me the biggest issue is Earl. He came in and looked a worldbeater in his first few games. But now he just looks like the rest of our defence. It’s bad enough that our defenders have not improved, but they’ve actually got worse, as has the keeper. Collins was a centre back himself, so you would have thought, if nothing else, he could get the defence organised. They are a shambles. There’s not much evidence that they even receive coaching.

What’s more, they have a midfield in front of them that I was hearing was the best midfield in the league last summer, in Kane, Connell and Phillips. What’s happened there then? To a man they are all worse than they were last season, and in a weaker division.

And further up the field we have a striker who knocked in 16 goals in the first half of the season, a very talented loanee in McAtee and a striker who knocked in 16 goals for the Champions of this very league last season, in a stronger division. I don’t recall anyone moaning about Cosgrove being poor recruitment when we signed him. I remember loads of talk about poor recruitment when we signed Cole.

Apart from maybe McAtee, every player is playing worse than they were earlier this season and some much worse than last season. A midfield of Kane, Connell and Phillips, and an attack of Cole, Cosgrove and McAtee should be able to see off the likes of Cheltenham, Cambridge and Stevenage. But Stevenage’s attack of Reid looked able to finish us off on his own. We have a strong enough squad to have done very well in this division, but even if they weren’t strong enough, you would hope that after 8 months of coaching you would see some improvement in the team as a whole and in individual players. But there is none. They have got worse. So where are you supposed to look for answers as to why this is?

 

great post.

 

Not every player has the same potential though, do they?

 

The whole team selection is wrong. We need to field a team that is on the front foot. Mentioned in a previous post, that involves O’Keeffe. We need to chalk **** on this rotation of forwards and play Cole and McAtee up top and keep them there. I don’t care if Cole is leaving in the summer but he’s playing poorly cos he’s off form and the manager isn’t doing him any favours.

Start Cole next four games and he bags a couple.

 

The problem is Cole likely has a deal agreed in principle somewhere else, and that deal will be entirely contingent on him not getting injured. So he's not going to go into any 25/75, let alone a 50/50 and I can't blame him. I wouldn't either.

 

It could be that Cole will have his eye on a possible Wembley bow which could enhance his prospects of a more lucrative move. I think what will be certain is that he won’t be a Barnsley player next season. Promotion or not.

 

For me it’s the balance of the back 3. Williams is fine in there alongside two big lads, De Gevigney would be alongside two big lads as well.

I think De Gevigney - Pines - Earl is pretty well balanced & I think for the few games they had together they looked decent.

I don’t think we’ve got or have had any other combination this season that gives you enough height, pace & ability.

McCart was deemed not good enough by the worst team in the championship by some distance. Not just not good enough to play but not good enough to be one of the back ups either. I don’t think he’s up to it but I think he’s here as he was a quick solution when Kitching went, he was left footed (which we lacked) & he was experienced. I can’t hear everything that gets said but it certainly seems like he does most of the talking & organising too.

I didn’t rate Lopata much. Didn’t think he was great in possession & lacked a bit of pace. I can’t fault his effort though. I just wish he was a couple of inches taller. As it happens he might well be starting if he was still here with Pines been out but I suppose we had to balance the books & he’ll have wanted game time.

I don’t really think it’s fair to judge Shepherd either. He’s a work in progress. I don’t think he’s anywhere near ready for a promotion push in league one but nor should he be given where he’s come from.

Last season Edwards was a decent loan signing but we definitely went up a gear with the signing of Thomas. I don’t know what experience he had but he looked a class above. I watched Coventry beat Wolves recently & I thought he was outstanding. I think he’ll end up in the prem.

I know what you’re saying about Kitching but one thing Kitching had was pace. He could make a balls up at league one level & still recover. He didn’t get punished like he did in the championship the season before. If McCart or De Gevigney make a balls up or take too long to react it’s game over for them, they aren’t getting back. He was always going to learn off that season in the deep end in the championship. Even if we kept Jasper Moon for example. He would’ve looked a lot better in league one for us after a season in the championship. If we stay in league one next season I’d imagine De Gevigney & Lopata (if they stay) will look better than they have this season regardless of who the manager is just through the experience of playing games at this level.

I don’t agree about Kane & Phillips going backwards although Phillips did have a slow start to the season.

Connell looks knackered to me. I don’t think he’s anywhere near 100%. He seems to lose out on 50-50’s & can’t get about the pitch like he used to.

Cosgrove’s a massive disappointment. Strikers always talk about streaks of scoring / not scoring but it feels like it’s gone beyond that with Cole. I don’t feel like it’s a lack of effort though. He was sprinting back into his own half tonight trying to win the ball back.

Just feels a bit flat at the minute. The great shame is I thought we’d cracked it after the run of wins following Pines introduction to the team. I almost wish we hadn’t signed him just because of the false hope it gave me. However, his injury alone doesn’t justify poor performances recently as our current form is far worse than before Pines joined.

I don’t really know what the answer is. I don’t see a player not been picked that would make a difference, I don’t see a change of system that would suit us better & because of that I can’t see the point in replacing a manager & paying the compo that would come with it.

I think our seasons going to finish poorly, half the squad will leave & it’ll be start from scratch all over again.

 

I get your point and it may well be true...but how many other teams are chasing promotion and worrying about starting their top scorer due to a possible move? It's one thing losing our better players when we're struggling but to worry about the application of our players when actually embarking on the play offs ... jesus there's little hope

 

Our defence has been poor throughout the season, it's not suddenly got worse. If you take games at Cheltenham and Northampton for example, there were just as many opposition chances with them having sliced through like a knife through butter but Roberts was phenomenal. We could very easily have been 2 or 3 down at Cheltenham who were rock bottom and hadn't scored at the time. Bristol Rovers carved us upon time after time in the second half there but we got a clean sheet because Marquis couldn't hit a cow's backside with a banjo fortunately. The better teams we played early, Oxford, Portsmouth, Peterborough etc seemed to score almost at will against us. Even a game like Exeter if people were prepared to take their irrationally rose tinted spectacles off they would see quite clearly that Durand presented Exeter with two gift opportunities but fortunately for us they hit the woodwork both times. Horsham put 3 past us fgs! Derby targeted Durand and battered us. The issue is that, other than Earl, these are simply not good defenders, have no body of work behind them and don't have the physical attributes nor a lot of the positional basics. Other managers have cottoned on to our weaknesses now too - cf Cambridge playing just one up front but putting him exclusively up against Durand who basically soiled himself as a result. Duff wouldn't have improved Durand he'd have got rid and brought in the next Bobby Thomas, in fact he probably would have said 'no' to signing him in the first place.

 

who's Durand?

 

Brilliant post. A good coach is supposed to organise and improve players.

 

The bottom line is that you would expect a coach to be able to do basic things like organise a defence so they play as a unit. We have played some awful teams recently with far worse players than us that have defended as a unit and been coached better.

 

It's a great post.

I've been on here and spoken to mates defending Collins and blaming the defense etc. but the fact is it's the same stuff each week. A good coach would get some improvement from what he has at his disposal but we are seeing the same every week.

I do still think the biggest issue at the club is the board and how they choose to operate, but Collins does not give me confidence that he'll get us up this season or next.

 

wayyyyyy too long for this goldfish

 

Same here,if it’s got more than twenty words I’m not reading it

 

WOWWW, as many as twenty? That would mean me taking my shoes and socks off to go that high, you must be super bright so you should go on Countdwn

 

Cadden and Williams at wing back, Kane, Connell and Phillips in midfield and Cole up front.

Everything other than the back three is the same team that played at Wembley so the regular excuse about such a poor team being why Collins taps it around at the back is absolutely rubbish.

A poor defence is less reason to give the ball to your defenders constantly not more.

 

The bit about tapping it around in a clueless manner is the one major point that irks me.

As per "The board want to play attacking, attractive football that Barnsley fans identify with and will recruit players and coaches that fit that style"

WTF happened, because that remit is sadly missing in action.

I'm minded to play golf on Saturday, and I'm **** at golf.

 

Ditto Kane.. and is it coincidence that Cadden although playing is a shadow of himself..

 

If you looked at how Gary Monk set Cambridge up the other week. They didn't have one player that would get into our side, and we couldn't break them down.
Now I have defend Collins but he has truly run out of ideas..
But it's back to the club's recruitment.. Collins or going to Austria or Sweden and trying to be a bit clever reinventing the wheel.. not a massive fan of Monk but it goes to show id bet they'd have been 10 coaches out of work and ready to go to work last summer.. without going thousands of miles to get em..