It's not often I'm reduced to tears

The system has failed that poor child - the alarm bells would have been well and truly ringing when she was taken out of school in the april for home schooling. Hopefully lessons will be learned. What I find frustrating is that if someone doesn't want their children then stop having more or if you do, put them up for adoption - there are plenty of folk out there who would give them a loving home. I appreciate I might not be everyone's cup of tea, but it puts everything with politics and football etc in perspective

 

Sadly you are completely right about Baby P and in fact owe @JLWBigLil an apology for taking this thread off topic.
Re your comparison with the states I held the same views prior to the abolition. I also thought that we should leave the European Union at the first referendum. I also changed my view on that as well at the time of the last referendum, so I’m 0 for 2 on referendums

 

The official statistics say that in 1963 (a year I picked at random) there were 307 murders which represents 5.6 murders per million people, last year the figure was 590 ie 8.6 murders per million people. Yes it is worse than it was but hardly a massive difference, and not a difference which could be explained simply by the end of Capital Punishment. There is no serious argument for the restoration of the death penalty.

 

Well as good old Henry Ford said, there are lies, damn lies etc,. I just pulled this up and it only proves you can always find stats to back up any claim. The following would seem to support mine

“Figures released by the Office For National Statistics today reveal that knife-enabled crime in England and Wales has risen by 4% in the year ending March 2024, with police recording 50,510 offences. This marks a significant 78% increase over the past decade.”

 

I don't doubt that the figures have got worse at a higher rate over the last few years (which can't have anything to do with Capital Punishment) but I was illustrating how things had changed since before the death penalty was abolished. The figures I quoted are also from the ONS.

 

I feel personally diminished by these acts of unbridled cruelty. That we live in a society where we allow this to happen.

 

Utterly callous, the pair of them. There's no excuse for treating a child like that.none whatsoever.

 

When the story first broke, I started to read the article, but I could not finish it. Since then, I cannot get past the headline. The poor little mite and such evil people.

 

The further back in history you go, the more violent and barbaric society gets. It's bad today, agreed, and obviously population has increased, but it's always been there in large amounts.

 

Heartbreaking what happened to this little girl. I just can't fathom how people can do it.

 

Yeah I agree and I have always believed that it equated to the levels of policing or lack thereof through outour history. Relatively speaking it’s my view that policing peaked during the last century and been in decline ever since.

 

I would strongly argue that our prison system should be based on rehabilitation, but that isn't the same as arguing that everyone can be rehabilitated. Look at Norway - we have a real life case study in how rehabilitation works for the benefit of society.

 

Capital punishment doesn't work. It's more expensive and isn't an effective deterrent. Wrongful convictions happen and whilst you can pardon someone in prison you can't resurrect a corpse.

 

With the thought of actual, loving mothers getting their children taken off them for being victims of DV, this makes me feel queasy...

 

I also can't read about this sort of thing.
Because it angers me so much when people do these sort of disgusting things, and especially to children!.
And while I hate the idea of scum bag criminals in prison taking the law onto themselves. I think these appalling people deserve all the punishment they might get, inside!.

 

They will .

 

Ah, but, if you read what Lee Anderson said about capital punishment a year or so ago it clearly works as no one who has been executed has gone on to commit any murders afterwards. The guy is a philosophical genius!!!
And on a serious note, we should all say a little prayer, or send our thoughts to that little girl, wherever she is.

 

Yeah, as I posted, I was firmly in the abolition camp in my younger days and am well aware of the arguments but law and order is in a downward spiral which needs to be addressed.
We had all the rioting up and down the country earlier in the year. The judicial system got its act in gear and it was quickly halted with some prompt and appropriate sentencing, all of which demonstrates that L & O issues can be addressed when we put our minds to it.

 

The trouble is, for all who praise these actions (and I firmly believe you are right to do so, agree completely), there are others who feel the rioters have been treated unfairly, ante victims of two tier justice - and it is proven by someone ongoing to prison for the heinous crime of throwing a dairy based drink at an at the time civilian with no public office.

We could never put such a thing to a referendum.

 

The woman last week was given a suspended sentence for throwing the milkshake. Unless there was another?