£30 + vat? Why cant they just put the right chuffin price on!£35.25

£36 sorry!

and £336 for the table.

£33.60 each on a table of 10.

 

Isn't VAT 20% so be £36 quid?

They put that in case the VAT rate changes they don't have to change the posters etc

 

Oops yeah - i whacked in 17.5! See how things like that lead to error!

 

Sounds cheaper to say plus VAT rather than say £36.

It's like when you see gig tickets advertised for x amount, you can stick at least a couple of quid on for booking fees and the rest.

 

its probably due to business law and the offset of vat against business expenses. it doesn't affect the majority of us admittedly and it annoys me too!

 

Gally are you messing about with the BBS!? lol The gret big banner has gone now.

 

because the bulk of tickets for BFC do's are bought through companies by tax dodgers

probably

 

Dodging Tax by paying VAT ?

Crafty.

 

Re: Dodging Tax by paying VAT ?

Yes, and then claiming it back, as well as avoiding income tax and NI, by putting what are really personal expenses through a company and claiming they're business expenses.

 

Re: Dodging Tax by paying VAT ?

Not sure how paying for a table at that do would allow any company to avoid NI ?

And can they claim 100% of VAT back on that expense ?

They might save a bit of corporation tax (on £300 odd quid)

Think we're at the margins here, it's hardly Vodafone is it ?

 

Re: Dodging Tax by paying VAT ?

if I bought a table and put it through my company it would cost me £300 + VAT and if I put it through as a business expense (e.g. entertaining clients) then I would be able to claim the VAT back in full and there would be no further tax (including no corporation tax) due on it, i.e. a total cost of £300.

If I were to buy the table out of my own pocket then I would not be able to claim back the VAT so it would cost me £360. However, in order to get that money into my own pocket in the first place I would have had to pay it to myself from my company, at which point income tax and NI (both employer's and employee's) would be due on it. Let's say for the sake of argument that i'm a 40% taxpayer then in order to pay myself £360 net I would need to make a gross payment of £750 (less £300 income tax @ 40% and £90 employee's NI at 12%). Add on the employer's NI of £103.50 at 13.8% and you've got a total outlay of £853.50. So putting it through the company would make me a handsome saving of £553.50 in tax.

Right, where's my company cheque book?

PS I'll wait for the accountants to show up the errors in my maths.

 

Re: Dodging Tax by paying VAT ?

Assuming 40 % tax payer ? Convenient.


Also you're assuming all (personal) income is taxed at 40% - in your example you'd be right on the 20 into 40 margin and you'd have to pay yourself an extra £360 to go which then takes you into the 40 % bracket.

I suppose this whole debate depends on your view - whether anyone should eb allowed any sort of minor benefit from owning a business and employing people - it's obviously a right laugh and we all avoid all and any tax and light our cigars with £50 notes whilst laughing at the proles. Don't ever pay cash in hand for anything mind or push for a 'deal' when buying anything - you're just avoiding tax at some level.

 

Re: Dodging Tax by paying VAT ?

Not really. If you're bringing in enough to justify the overheads of running a company then you've got to be on a fairish whack. I'm not talking about being on the margin, just being a 40% taxpayer in the first place. You could argue that some proportion of total income is tax-free and some at basic rate but if I wanted to pay myself extra to buy a table that's how the maths works out.

Even if you assume a basic rate taxpayer it still works out as more than double the cost to buy the table myself rather than to put it through the company.

Oh, and owning a business and employing people are entirely separate.

I'm not condoning this kind of behaviour, by the way, just trying to throw some light on the figures.

 

Re: Dodging Tax by paying VAT ?

"Oh, and owning a business and employing people are entirely separate."

In this case they aren't because you can only claim all the vat back on entertaining if you do it for employees as far as I'm aware.

 

Re: Dodging Tax by paying VAT ?

Fair point. So I could save myself as little as £200 (edited) for a basic rate owner of a non-employing company up to £553.50 for a higher rate owner of an employing company. If it was a quid it's still be a potential tax dodge. What is your point, exactly?

 

Re: Dodging Tax by paying VAT ?

Let's be right, a business owner won't pay himself an additional £360 in reality will he ? It'll come out of his already accounted for income.

He can't claim the VAT unless he's taking all employees - and giving his workforce something back for their efforts.

If you view that as 'dodging' tax then that's your view on that specific matter, I disagree strongly in the context of what it is.

And again, I hope you take this indignation at avoiding even £1 of tax into everything you do personally.

 

Re: Dodging Tax by paying VAT ?

I'm a business owner and the amount of money I take out of the company is directly related to my expected expenditure.

We're talking about dodging here - the HMRC are extremely unlikely to ask for attendance records for such an event.

I'm talking about taking a load of mates and saying it was a company do. I'd consider that dodging.

I do not dodge tax. In fact I pay significantly more than I need to, much to the consternation of my accountant. But I'm not naive enough to think that this kind of thing doesn't go on.

 

Re: Dodging Tax by paying VAT ?

I've never advocated claiming VAT on 'taking mates' - only adhering to rules as laid down by HMRC, as opposed to the original point by Spartacus that it was apparently 'the bulk' of tickets for such events were bought by 'tax dodgers' - a wildly inaccurate and sweeping generalisation and quite insulting to some of the people I know who support BFC through such things.

I'm sure some people do avoid tax wherever possible.

 

City Hall in Sheffield are *******s for that. Everywhere else I've bought tickets for, the booking fee is a couple of quid per booking. It's per ticket with them though.

Anyway, sorry for the off topic rant, but its one of them things that particularly pisses me off.

 

Re: Dodging Tax by paying VAT ?

This is the bentest argument on the BBS for many a moon. Come to think of it - I bet you two bumders are mooning each other as you are typing.

You gret pair of Uphill Gardeners