A Couple Of Quick Comments On Immigration

I wouldn't claim to know what percentage of crimes in this country are committed by immigrants, or what percentage of immigrants are committing crimes. The problem is, if it's something high profile such as a crime against a person, then one is enough. Rightly or wrongly, people are going to feel that immigrants have been "allowed" to come this country for a better life and this is how they repay us. You'd have to be extremely naive not to expect this reaction.

It was obvious that with freedom of movement, nationals of the less prosperous EU nations were going to move to Western Europe. It was a nailed on certainty. These people have every right to be here and there is very little that Nigel Farage or the EDL can do about. My main question is what are the benefits to the UK economy of having an influx of unskilled Eastern European migrants? I'm struggling to think of many.

Unskilled jobs are generally low paid so will generate very little in tax revenue. In fact, the migrant workers will qualify for the same benefits that a native worker would be entitled to. These benefits are often sent back to migrant's own country. It is the same with wages. Many migrants are here to earn as much as they possibly can and send it to relatives back home, and it is their right to do so. Every pound that is earned in this country but spent elsewhere is a pound lost to the UK economy. It soon adds up.

People might argue that the migrants will do jobs that British people will not. Is this really true? Who did these jobs before the migrants came over? There is always someone willing to do unpleasant graft for a few quid. I've had some horrendous factory jobs when I was a student and the workforce was entirely made up of local people. Have they all emigrated?

Thoughts?

 

I suppose a quick comment deserves a quick response. This however, is too complicated an issue and a quick response could not do it justice.

 

Yes I'll bite.......

a) When will people realise that this 'naive' reaction is exactly what the establishment are after. It helps deflect any criticism of other policies that are current. Think of bedroom tax, think of tax cuts for high earners, think of Human Rights, think of TTIP.
b) Benefits of unskilled EU workers - UK companies get the benefit that's who. EU workers working their balls off for min wage - same or lower labour cost - no unions = more efficient labour, lower costs & hence higher profits.
c) And just how do you know this money is being sent back to their families? seen bank statements have we? How do you know that the 'british' worker does not go abroad & spend his cash on holidays abroad? same thing isn't it - cash out of our economy

No politician has come out and said that this free labour movement has been detrimental to the british economy

So it's ok to poach well trained people like doctors but not manual workers?

I'm too tired to carry on

 

What's to bite at exactly?

I think you've misunderstood what I am referring to by a naive reaction.

In these unskilled jobs the British workforce would be subject to the same conditions - low pay, lack of unions etc.

Couldn't find specific examples relating to the Eastern European countries but you get the jist

http://www.theguardian.com/global-d...ters/2010/nov/10/migrants-send-money-home-aid

http://www.ibtimes.com/remittance-e...g-economies-their-home-countries-maps-1557882

 

Excellent.

 

We are all immigrants to a lesser or greater extent. The clues in the title Anglo Saxons.

 

Re: A Couple Of Quick Comments On Harry Gration

Look Norths ***** and so is Scarborough

 

All the evidence I've read is that immigration from the EU has had a positive impact on the UK economy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29910497

http://www.economist.com/news/brita...ce-research-what-have-immigrants-ever-done-us

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/1114/051114-economic-impact-EU-immigration

Can't claim to be anywhere close to an expert myself, or even claim to be aware of, let alone understand, all the various issues, but if numerous studies consistently state that EU migrants put more in to the economy than they take out, then I'm not in a position to argue.

There have been plenty of newspaper articles over the years claiming the opposite, but very few quote actual figures, or if they do they only highlight what immigrants take out, not what they put in. It's very often an opinion piece written to conform to the already set agenda.

I've no agenda other than hoping the media report the truth. I'm not desperate for immigrants to come here nor do I advocate us building a wall to keep them out. I'd just like what is best for our country. I'd also like fair and balanced reporting across all the media so that when the referendum comes around, people can make an informed choice as it will be decided on immigration.

The following article addresses many of the points you have highlighted.

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/6399/economics/impact-of-immigration-on-uk-economy/

 

So you're commenting on crime figures which you admit you don't know, and picking out one aspect of the economic consequences without looking at the whole picture? And you then conflate the two with a spurious notion of "us" ("This is how they repay us")?

Does the "us" contain the capitalists who exploit the economic situation by placing workers on zero hours or limited guarantee contracts? Or the government ministers who erode employment rights and place the cost of enforcing those that remain beyond the means of ordinary employees? Or even the specimens of humanity who roam Barnsley town centre screaming foul-mouthed abuse at their offspring? What is "us" exactly?

 

Read the first paragraph again soft lad. I haven't commented on crime statistics at all. I've commented on people's reaction to crime, and I'd say after the reactions to the recent tragic event, I am pretty much spot on. The "us" I am referring to is the people reacting in the way I have outlined. That could be anyone you have stated in your second paragraph or any other member of the public.

You're entitled to disagree with everything I've said, but at least disagree with what I have I actually said and not what you think I have said.

 

Just to clarify for people who cannot read, I am not accusing immigrants of committing more crimes than British citizens. I also do not have any problem with them being here as they have every right to do so. I deliberately did not mention anything in relation to the social, cultural or religious impact to avoid any daft arguments.

I am just asking a couple of questions about the economic impact as many others have done and will continue to for decades.

 

Never mention politics, religion or immigration on here or you will surely attract abuse. Good post imo BTW.

 

All the statistical evidence I have seen points to a positive economic impact. You can then argue - Is there people to do those jobs already in this country? If so, are they in the right areas of the country? i.e 500 unemployed unskilled workers in Liverpool can't be picking potatoes in Lincolnshire. Low-paid, geographically specific seasonal work lends itself to young migrants who are physically fit and can cram into a small house to keep costs down, no good for someone in their 50s with 2 kids, for example.

 

In a 2012 Study it was shown that Brits spend over £31b whilst out of the country on holiday.

 

I spend nowhere near that. 1000 quid spendo on a two week holiday abroad, tops. That's a long way short of £31 billion. There's some rich ******* abart.

 

So commenting on what you think people's reaction to crime will be is not commenting on crime statistics - but "one is enough"? Okay.

"Us" implies that people in general share your notion.

Difficult to disagree with everything you've said because it's far from clear what you are saying. But speaking as one of the less intelligent folk on here it seems to me that your point is thinly disguised bigotry.

 

Yup.

 

You don't know your future until you know you're history.

In the 50s, the Irish came over. They were unskilled workers, set up little communities in the Cities they settled & set their lives up here. 60 years after lots of prejudice & hate, they've assimilated.

In the 60s, the West Indians/Carribbeans came over. They were unskilled workers, set up little communities in the Cities they settled & set their lives up here. 50 years after lots of prejudice & hate, they've assimilated.

In the 70s & 80s, the Indians came over. They were unskilled workers, set up little communities in the Cities they settled & set their lives up here. 40 years after lots of prejudice & hate, they've assimilated.

In the 90s & 00s, the Eastern Europeans came over. They were unskilled workers, set up little communities in the Cities they settled & set their lives up here. 20 years after lots of prejudice & hate, they're still assimilating.

What we're seeing is just global change - the World is much, much smaller than it ever was before. The old rules no longer apply in terms of nationalism & identity & people have the right to live anywhere they want and anywhere that they believe will make it better for them & their family & for that I'm pretty happy. Of course you'll get issues, of course you'll get unsavourable people who come over but you'll get 99% of hard working, normal, run of the mill people who just want to get on in life & the vast majority do.

 

Oh, and just to validate the point

My best mate & best man is 2nd generation Polish. He's the tarnest kid in the World.

My fiance was born in Ireland - her Grandparents though moved over here & lived in Leeds for years, doing the unskilled labour jobs you say are of no worth. Their son was born here who then moved back to Ireland and then settled in Barnsley in the late 80s when his wife answered an advert for Nurses. He now runs a business over here, employs a few people and generally does good things.

Not only that, both his sister & his brother moved over at similar times too. The reason why there's no march or resentment towards them was that they're white & have Western sounding names. If that was an Asian family who had done the same thing then they'd be looked at very differently.

 

Immigration is not the problem, it's the caliber of the immigrant, we've opened our country up to people so they can have a better standard of life, and what we've ended up with in this last influx over the past 10 years, is all the scum that no other countries want, only thing they bring to our country is a criminal record. Prisons are full to bursting, so people that should be locked up are out on license committing crimes. Mass deportation of immigrant criminals is the only way we stand any chance of sorting out crime in this country.