Academy Costs

There was an interview on the radio yesterday evening with Andy Ambler, who is the chief executive for Millwall FC.
He stated the annual cost or running Millwall Academy was around £600,000 per year and that it would cost in the region of £1.7 million to run one in the Premier League. He said the cost of running Millwall as a Centre of Excellence was in the region of £450,000 per year but the big disadvantage was that instead of playing Chelsea, Tottenham and Arsenal, you come up against the likes of Southend!

Alvin Martin also told about his own experiences of being a dad to an Academy player (his son Joe) and the difficulties in making a choice between a big club (earning decent wages) and a small club (good opportunities to play). He said, even with his wealth of experience inside the game, he still made the wrong decision in moving to a big club.
If he could have his time again, he would have chosen the smaller club and would encourage others in a similar situation to do the same.

 

Bloody Hell Barney, you'll have BFC employees registering under random names calling you stuff nt

 

so in summary

the difference in cost, if the above is true, between a COE and an acadamy is 150k..i.e. peanuts.

 

I know that I am going to regret this but....

The above costs presumably do not cover the costs of the youngsters offered a contract at the age of 17. They are usually offered a 4 year contract at say £20K per year.... say a further £80K per young professional before we can expect them to make the first team on a regular basis and giving the club a payback on their investment. Let us also assume that an average of 1 academy player is offered a contract each year.

So to summarise
Academy ( C of E)
Academy costs for the last 6 years (6 x £600K) £3,600,000 (6 x £450K) (£2,700,000)
Young Professionals (6 x £80K) 480,000 (6 x £80K) (480,000)
Total Costs over 6 years 4,080,000 (£3,180,000)

Transfers received
Scott Flinders (Estimated) 250,000 ( 250,000)
Transfers fees saved on players from academy
that have established themselves in the first team 0 ( 0)

Net cost of academy (6 years) £3,830,000 (£2,930,000)

Even as a supporter of the academy I find the figures hard to justify. Of course, if one of Butterfield, Potter or Adam are sold for £4m or become worth £4m, the numbers immediately make sense and the investment is justified. The investment, like everything else in football is a risk. My position is this. Any reasonable business would seek to make sure that such a large investment has the best possible chance of success. It makes sense to invest that little bit more in order to increase the chance of succeeding. We need better raw matterials and our chances of attracting better 16 year olds is increased if we have a person at the top who has a better record of success in the game, both as a coach and as a player.

Having lit the blue touchpaper I now intend to retire to a safe distance.

 

He did not offer a breakdown of all the costs. He did say that clubs like Millwall and others were going to concentrate on getting their lads into the first team instead of Thirtysomething stop gaps. Ambler and Martin both agreed that young lads will make more mistakes but that is the best way of learning. The club's position in the table will influence selection here.
I don't know what Millwall's Academy record is like but recently they lost 3 players to bigger clubs, one of whom Amoo, scored the winner for Liverpool against Chelsea last night in the Youth Cup.
I don't know why Barnsley's record of producing players is not good. All clubs have the same catchment area and of the two clubs previously mentioned as being very successful, Boro and Everton, half of their catchment area is water!

 

I too would like to see the end of 30 something stop gaps. However, you can see that a first team manager is driven by results because bad results mean he is looking for a new job. In any event, I am not sure that lack of oportunity is the problem at Oakwell. Youngsters are introduced to reserve team football at an early stage. They have the chance of learning the game at a lower level whilst out on loan. There is no evidence that youngsters have slipped through the net at Oakwell and have gone on to make a name for themselves elsewhere. Because of this, I am convince that the problem is that we are not attracting players of the required standard as 16 year olds. In my personal opinion, the team that I watched 6 years ago were a far better group than the current team. Sadly because of the clubs financial problems at the time, some of those lads did not get a break.

 

From what I can gather our academy costs us at Cardiff in the region of £1m/year. Then again, that figure was the one mooted by Sam Hammam & at least half of it probably went to him.

In all fairness, the academy is something I would give SH credit for as he was adamant that this was the future of the club & would produce players for years to come (as it did for him at Wimbledon). He completely overhauled our scouting network and coaching staff to ensure the youngsters had the best possible chance of making it & made us attractive to both the young players and their parents. He really turned on the charm with them, knowing everything about their sons.

Neil Ardley has run our academy for the last 18 months or so & he takes over from a previously successful regime as well - even when it was just a CoE.

Over the last few years we've sold on Chris Gunter for £2.5m and Aaron Ramsey (£5m) from the academy, Rob Earnshaw (£3m) & Cameron Jerome (£3.5m) from the CoE - and theres also a decent fee awaiting CoE product Joe Ledley. James Collins also came from there but I can't remember the fee - it was tied up in the deal involving Gabbidon as well. I'm sure I've left someone out as well.

So overall it's made us a fortune & if we can do it, I'm sure you could.

 

Hold on a min&uacute;te.</p>

Kay, Austin, Williams, and Tonge.</p>

They all played for the first team in League One and played a part in getting us promoted.</p>

So you can't say the Academy hasn't produced players for the First team.</p>

As for the cost of the Academy much of it is tied up in the infrastructure.</p>

Remember the indoor facilities were built for the Academy not for the first team.</p>

The cost of the Academy is a matter for the Club not fans.
</p>

 

cheers 'walter'

nice to know theres yet another post of yours defending the academy. Ronnie will be proud

 

Red Rain

How sure are you that 17 year olds get a 4 year deal at 20k a year?it does seem a lot,most COE players get a 1 year deal,1 lad who is quite highly thought of has a 2 year deal,or did you use those figures as an example of what it could cost?

 

RE: Red Rain

£20k a year for 4 years!!!! I think that is way way way off the mark.

Do people just invent things here?

 

RE: Red Rain

I cant see a club giving all the signed on kids 4 year contracts.

 

Cardiff's success is interesting from what you have said and the two key factors are the coaching (which we cannot see for the Youth Team but people could judge for themselves for the younger ages) and the recruitment. I don't know just how hard Barnsley try to get kids in early? Not sure who we have to turn on the charm?

 

Cardiff's success could be down to hardly any other clubs in the surrounding 50 miles

weve' only got

Manchester x 2
Pigs x 2
l**ds
Hudds
bradford
Notts x 2
Derby
Stoke
Burnley
Blackburn

Blah Blah Blah

 

Spot on again

What's up with you making sense?!

 

RE: Cardiff's success could be down to hardly any other clubs in the surrounding 50 miles

</p>

Cardiff has a population of over 300000 and it's catchment area is much larger than ours.</p>

There simply isn't the talent at the moment in our area. If we spread the net wider we are up against the big boys, and lads will go and play for the team they support given the opportunity.</p>

We can't compete with the Premiership teams who have used helicopters to to get round the traveling time regulations and who also have satalite Academies so they can coach youngsters without them having to travel very far.</p>

Can we afford a satalite Academy in Manchester, Liverpool, Newcastle, etc. The cost would be astronomical.</p>

Man U also spots talent via the Bobby Charlton Soccer Schools who tour the Country. Thats how they spotted Beckham.
</p>

As for the quality of the Coaching in the Academy you can only judge that by spending a least two weeks in there.
</p>

 

The figures that I have used for young players wages are guesses. Both Butterfield and Adam were awarded 4 year contracts, so I have assumed that it is standard. The annual running costs of an academy are taken from Barney's initial comments about Milwall academy, which seem to be bourne out by Bluebirds comments regarding Cardiff. In any event, the figures are merely a taking point. The real issue is the lack of payback from the sale of academy players, or the saving in transfer fee expenditure if academy players establish themselves in the first team. Johnny Coachman made the point that I had not included Kay and Austin. I did not do so because they came through before the 6 year period that I was looking at. Johnny Coachman also mentions Williams and Tonge who I have not included because I did not feel that they established themselves in the first team. However, readers who feel that these players made a contribution should make an appropriate deduction from my figures. In fact, please feel free to do your own numbers based upon the structure that I have used. I am confident that any conclusion that you make about the investment is bound to be similar to my own.

 

Blackburn within 50 miles?

Wish it was.

 

"As for the quality of the Coaching in the Academy you can only judge that by spending a least two weeks in there."

Is this the same person who decided Andy Ritchie was a crap coach based on one session.

 

To be fair I think he went twice!

But then again, both times were on days straight after a game whenteams have light training sessions due to checking knocks etc.. </p>