an excellent letter from the guardian by an academic from York university

At last we may get a debate on Britain's relationship with Europe (Leader, 11 January). What did the EEC/EU ever do for us? Not much, apart from: providing 57% of our trade; structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline; clean beaches and rivers; cleaner air; lead free petrol; restrictions on landfill dumping; a recycling culture; cheaper mobile charges; cheaper air travel; improved consumer protection and food labelling; a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives; better product safety; single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance; break up of monopolies; Europe-wide patent and copyright protection; no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market; price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone; freedom to travel, live and work across Europe; funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad; access to European health services; labour protection and enhanced social welfare; smoke-free workplaces; equal pay legislation; holiday entitlement; the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime; strongest wildlife protection in the world; improved animal welfare in food production; EU-funded research and industrial collaboration; EU representation in international forums; bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO; EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty; European arrest warrant; cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence; European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa; support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond; investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.

All of this is nothing compared with its greatest achievements: the EU has for 60 years been the foundation of peace between European neighbours after centuries of bloodshed. It furthermore assisted the extraordinary political, social and economic transformation of 13 former dictatorships, now EU members, since 1980. Now the union faces major challenges brought on by neoliberal economic globalisation, and worsened by its own systemic weaknesses. It is taking measures to overcome these. We in the UK should reflect on whether our net contribution of £7bn out of total government expenditure of £695bn is good value. We must play a full part in enabling the union to be a force for good in a multipolar global future.

 

a reasonable argument for staying in for me. can any of the vote out lot tell me any sensible reasons for leaving other than they dont like immigration?

 

Not much there we couldn't sort by ourselves.

 

I'm not bothered about immigration, I welcome it. I'll be voting out because as tingleytyke says, we can govern ourselves. If we can't then by all means stay in Europe, but for the long term I think it would be best to make our politicians be under pressure instead of having Brussels hold their hand. I know its controversial especially under this god forsaken government but heres hoping for a Corbyn victory in 2020

 

I'm not bothered about immigration, I welcome it. I'll be voting out because as tingleytyke says, we can govern ourselves. If we can't then by all means stay in Europe, but for the long term I think it would be best to make our politicians be under pressure instead of having Brussels hold their hand. I know its controversial especially under this god forsaken government but heres hoping for a Corbyn victory in 2020

 

And for Barnsley to win the Champions League within the same timescale!

 

So in his (and presumably your) opinion there're NO negatives to being part of the EU?? Hardly a 'balanced view is it? Whilst it DOES highlight the many achievements of the EU, it, unfortunately, glosses over its many flaws in two short sentences .."systemic weaknesses" ......."It is taking measures to overcome these" REALLY??
I am wary when 'academics' rattle off statistics to support their views. Has he an 'agenda'? Has the Guardian a political agenda and 'wheeled out' a tame academic to support the views of their political masters? I am sure that some Economist or a 'academic' out there will be able to present just as compelling an argument as to why we should leave.

And before you start ...I am still undecided on which way I will vote as it is nowhere near as clear cut as you suggest but, even putting aside the populist (and in my view incorrect) argument that immigration and excessive legislation from an unelected body & loss of Sovereignty are all because of the EU membership.

 

Sorry, I must have made a mistake; I had presumed that this was a forum about Barnsley Football Club...

 

It is. We are deciding if we want to be in or out of the European cup next season. I say out.

 

I don't think the EU can claim credit for that, It's more to do with the US and NATO rather than the EU.
Also, we had 30 years of relative peace before we even joined the EU (Northern Ireland aside) plus Switzerland have not been to war for centuries, have most of the benefits discussed, is one of the best places in the world to live and they aren't even in the EU.

 

Im still waiting for the reasoned arguement that leaving would be suicide...

Ill not expect one soon.

 

As I have pointed on here MANY TIMES peace in Europe has been achieved by ecsc which was a direct forerunner of the EU

 

Please see above

 

Like

 

see above. i never knew you were hanging onto my every word tha should have said.

 

What's worrying is when he makes the major claim, as Simon De Montforte has pointed out....giving credit to the EU for peace and no WW3 ...absolute b**ls,
The utter destruction of Germany by the allies and it's partitioning for 45 years is the sole reason....Germany was left a moonscape without the means to feed itself never mind threaten world peace again.
65 years of peace in Europe is down to Nato and to some degree the Warsaw Pact...stationing their armies and countless numbers of troops on German soil.
if he's falsely claiming the single greatest achievement of the post war years is down to the EU....it seriously questions the validity of anything else he has written there.....shameful .

 

Dear sir (or country) Please give me £55m per day. I will ensure you get some of that back subject to our approval and your compliance and swear that the rest of it will be spent wisely with no personal or national vested interests involved and all costs spent running the organisation managed by duly elected accountable people with minimal bureaucracy. all expenses will be backed up by receipts and full and accurate accounts presented annually duly audited"

Oh! hang on...............................

 

My own opinion (for what its worth), is that now the referendum is upon us, we, the voters just wish for one thing...........................To be told the truth by both parties, then they can trust us to make the right decision.
What the Uk put in, what we get out and the positives and negatives etc, no spin please!
I heard a guy telling me the other day that the ideal of trading in Europe should be to forge trade deals and rebuff China, so that we may hold on to industries. I thought was a good shout but is it that simple?
I need far more information.............. and I'm sure, if we are honest, none of us truly know enough to make a n informed decision at this moment in time.

 

It's down to economic unity everyone knows that that is the case

 

The letter is just a list of statements, "providing 57% of our trade"??? as compared to what?

In fact the list states exactly how the country has moved on since i stopped eating pickled onions. i therefore claim the credit.