..Not as angry as I am about the fact that Marr interviewing Boris interrupted him at every opportunity but seemed to allow Major (deferentially referred to as "Sir John" most times) to deliver a long diatribe answer to every question with very half-hearted attempts interrupt him. Notwithstanding that he is right about 'exaggerations and lies' coming from the Brexit campaign, he completely ignored the fact that the Remain camp, particularly Cameron, are telling as many, if not more, porkies and giving mis-directions than the Brexit camp. His argument over immigration was complete waffle as in the opening response he acknowledged that he did not have an answer to the rising immigration but then went straight into stating the 'fact' that the Brexit campaign did not have a workable policy. He completely missed out the point that freedom of movement (what had Schlengen to do with it as that is border control mechanism rather than a bloc on EU migrants?) is enshrined in EU doctrine and not up for negotiation (as Cameron knows). It is also highly discriminatory against non-EU migrants as it favours EU citizens. A points system WOULD be achievable allowing UK to identify and allow skilled migrants from anywhere in the world rather than favouring EU unskilled workers over skilled migrants for outside the EU. Sadly, every day we are drip fed lies..... Now Cameron tells us mortgages "MIGHT" rise if we leave. Given that he recently told us house prices MIGHT Fall by 18%??? should we leave then one surely cancels out the other.
Both parties should both say may or may not to every argument....as neither have any concrete proof....what will actually happen Just shows what politics is from top to bottom....lies and deceit.....now where should I put my tick....based on the Information we have??!!
I doubt we will have many absolutely definitive answers on the economic case before June 23rd. Looking at the bigger picture though we have to decide how important our own sovereignty is . It's clear the EU is going to be a federal state...the institutions are mostly in place , a single currency , Europe wide standardisation , a European President , Foreign Ministry...coming next is the European Army . European policy is dictated by the EU Commissioners. ...who are not elected by the people of Europe in a democratic vote , the British people now need to decide whether or not we go further into a system that is basically undemocratic at the very top of the tree... ( as it seems Cameron has nothing on the piece of paper he fetched back)...or do do we retain a system that allows us to sack the politicians who fail us.
I honestly don't think it makes a scrap of difference where we put our crosses. However the vote goes we ain't leaving, simple as that. The establishment and vested interests are too powerful and have too much at stake, they'll move heaven and earth to keep us in. They'll renegotiate while dragging their feet on taking us out, and they'll keep holding referenda until they get the result they want. This is all smoke and mirrors.
... especially as, either way, the vote is probably going to be close, giving them the excuse that there is no clear mandate. This will be particularly the case if there is a low turnout. I hope people get off their backsides and vote (whichever way their conscience dictates) although I don't understand the 'Remain' camp idea that a large turnout favours them. Sick to death of the lies and, now personal attacks rather than facts. I do however feel that this has been the tactic throughout , mainly from the remain camp and not just the politicians. I have been on many forums (BBC etc) and noted the tendency towards insulting Brexit posters... "idiots", "Fools" "morons", "zenophobes", "racists" " "little Englanders", "cretins" (as well as much worse) have been common throughout the last few weeks. name calling simply weakens their argument as far as I am concerned. And now Major has resorted to it on TV. Its OUT for me!
What I don't get is people like Corbyn and others on the left who have called the EU out for its corporatist, bank favoured nature in the past now calling for a 'remain' vote to protect us from the Tories. Why ? Are we stopping general elections after this ? What if the EU takes a swing right politically ? What then ? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
corbyn has changed his mind since he became leader because he's sh it scared of upsetting the unions.He has always been in the leave camp labeling the EU as nothing more than undemocratic and full of capitalism,he has changed his mind because he now knows where his bread is buttered.
Corbyn SHOULD know that if we come out and the Tories stay in power they will systematically deconstruct all the employee protection enshrined in EU law. Cameron may want to stay in but given a free hand if we're out they'll protect their business cronies by sticking it right up the ordinary worker.
i dont swallow all this scaremongering that workers rights will be stripped should we leave.There are far too many workers who would be affected by such measure for the tories to risk losing what working class votes they do have,they know that they cannot win elections without these people,so for the life of me i cannot see them risking alienating that vote. If the tories were to start stripping rights such as holidays,maternity/paternity leave etc etc then they would almost certainly be out of office come the next general election and it wouldnt take labour long to gain momentum should these scenario's happen.
Duncan Smith and to a lesser extent Johnson are pretty clear that this is on the agenda to remove 'red tape' for example the Wtd that guarantees holidays. Freed from Europe they will have the green light and take it. Attacking the working class never stopped the Tories being successful as you know from the 80s. Unions cannot defend these rights. In private and in public those on the right will confirm this
I asked a counsellor the other week about ....the special deals we get with other eu nations.....he said that's a myth only 3 such agreements exist and they are partial agreements ....not like we deal with you and give u a 40% discount and visa versa type thing . in fact he said the biggest user and discounted was India!!
RMajor just comes across as a tit, he was stamping his feet the other day about the leave campaign telling lies and making stuff up, blindly ignoring the fact that both lots are as bad!
You could be right...but we can punish them at the ballot box. What I cannot understand is the issue though of worker holidays...Workers have had paid holidays throughout my lifetime...why is that being trumpeted as an EU achievement?
The right to a legal minimum holiday period is given through the working time directive. There are no legal rights to holidays on UK law. In fact we are one of the few western democracies that have no rights to statutory holiday. Before the implementation of the Wtd I did some research for the organisation I was working for. It was easy to find employees who were only 'given' 10 days holiday a year. additionally holidays in many industries were fought for and won by unions who are now too weak to protect them. Removal of EU protection will be a perfect storm for workers right.
I shall be voting to remain. I do not particularly want to get into an argument, or to influence people on how they should vote. I just thought that I would tell you why. Great Britain is a trading nation. It has to trade because it cannot grow enough food to feed itself. In order to trade successfully in world markets, a small country like Britain needs some way of bridging all the trade barriers that prevent countries from trading. Before we joined the EU, the commonwealth was our trading umbrella, and before that, the British Empire. When we joined the EU, we were forced to turn our back on the Commonwealth. We burned our bridges, and the Commonwealth found a different and less important role commercially and in many cases, new commercial partners. If we are to be a stand alone nation, we will be forced to negotiate new trade deals from a position of weakness. Other countries would be quite willing to supply us with food, but would they want to take our goods and services in exchange, when many of them have introduced trade barriers in order to protect their own fledgling industries, or in the case of the USA, in order to protect their inefficient home producers. If not, we have a balance of payments deficit, and all the dire predictions about the economy stem from this one problem. You see, lots of different car manufacturers have set up home here. None of them is British owned. Why would they continue to make cars here when most of their markets have erected trade barriers, which have added significantly to their costs, making them uncompetitive in their export markets. There are many other examples, where globally owned corporations will look at their costs and decide that it would be more cost effective to do their business elsewhere. This movement does not just damage our balance of trade. It means that jobs move elsewhere and therefore, the tax paid by those workers and those companies moves elsewhere. Unemployment rises, a recession results and the government cuts costs in order to balance its books. I am a pensioner, but even I do not expect to escape the carnage untouched. As you will have noticed if you have read all this, I am not voting to remain because I think that it will be best for me. I will be voting to remain because I think that it is the best option for the country, and for future generations.
I am certainly no expert but what I have managed to find out is that our membership to the EU is priced at £50M every day. Thatcher negotiated a rebate on that figure which means we actually pay £35M every day. If you take off the money we receive back in funding etc it actually costs us £18M every single day of the year. That's a staggering £6.5 billion pounds a year (that's 10% of the total NHS budget) just to be a member of a single market. There is no doubt that we would negotiate a trade deal with the EU in the event of Brexit, plus we would then have access to free trade with the rest of the world. The biggest economies in the world i.e. China, India, America are currently not available for us to trade with as a nation. Its 'out' for me, but that's just my opinion. make your own mind up guys
I did the same research as you with the £50m, £35m and £18m but I also discovered that this funding is only the direct funding that is allocated to the UK and doesn't include any of the local funding such as apparently part of the funding for the revamping of the area outside the town hall, and the other town centre areas that have had a face lift the funding to small businesses in Barnsley, sports clubs, new industrial units etc. It's shame really because logically somebody somewhere MUST know exactly how much money has come back into the UK from ALL the funding. There must be a paper trail somewhere but it seems that none of those with the power to find out actually want to because they are all too happy to make exaggerated claims in either direction in order to get a reaction. I'm voting to remain for the following reasons: If we stay in the EU our future is more certain and to be perfectly honest my life is pretty good right now. Not perfect but I can hardly complain compared to the lives of people in the middle East, Africa etc. If we leave there is no guarantee that any deal done would be better than we already have. Is it really responsible to essentially take a huge gamble with our countries future? Remember what gamble aware say. Do not gamble with something you cannot afford to lose. Next I do ot trust this government one bit to spend any money wisely or fairly. They are doing g everything they can to decimate the north and it my opinion without the less biased European funding we would be well and truly ****** while London and the south would thrive. Dodgy Dave does not give a flying **** about Barnsley. Workers rights, the EU protects us massively and without them I can see Cameron and his cronies pecking away at our rights until we are nothing but slaves to his Eton boys. Sure the EU isn't perfect and it costs a lot of money but I firmly believe that we get a lot of money and freedoms back from it and more importantly I think we get a lot of protection from the real enemy within which is the Eton lot down south. Who protects us if we pull out and the government starts to destroy the north again?
What I don't understand is that labour as a whole are for remaining in Europe but all say the EU must be drastically reformed. They all know that there is no chance of major reforms, look at the struggle Cameron had for what are minor changes, and temporary ones at that. Surely labour must recognise they cant logically say stay, but reforms are required which they know they won't get.
You are making an argument based on the short term vision that this government will always be in power. The issue is bigger than who the current government is. The answer to your question above, about who protects us if we pull out, is "the electorate". i.e. if you don't like the government, vote the buggers out. That is the democracy that I want to protect, imperfect as it is. Who protects us when the unelected EU machine makes policy decisions we don't agree with? Answer - Nobody. Because nobody can.