Anyone not...

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by RedStriker, May 5, 2020.

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  1. RedStriker

    RedStriker Well-Known Member

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    ...planning to download the app?
    If not why not?
     
    RedStriker, May 5, 2020
    #1
  2. Dragon Tyke

    Dragon Tyke Well-Known Member

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    what App is this ?
     
    Dragon Tyke, May 5, 2020
    #2
  3. TitusMagee

    TitusMagee Well-Known Member

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    Pornhub
     
    TitusMagee, May 5, 2020
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  4. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Jimmy viz, May 5, 2020
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  5. ark

    ark104 (v2) Well-Known Member

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    If you're not then you should really read Plankton Pete's post the other day. Track and trace is the only way that we can move beyond lockdown and an app is a vital part of that along with in person contact tracing
     
    ark104 (v2), May 5, 2020
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  6. BarnsleyReds

    BarnsleyReds Well-Known Member

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    My opinion has now changed as more information has been revealed to me about this app. I do not know if the app was changed, or I received some bad information, but I apologise to all.
    My new post is here

    TLDR: I will be downloading the app if I go out.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    No. I work in software, I’ve done work in IT security. The app is shockingly bad.

    The UK government had an offer from both Google and Apple for them to work together to make an app that would work properly. The government declined this. That app would have used Bluetooth to check for nearby phones, register them locally and then if any of those phones belong to a confirmed case later down the line, alert me that my phone had seen that phone. That would have worked very well.

    The government knew better though. The new app uses location, stored in a centralised place. This means the government has access to your entire location data. They will then use that location data to check if people were near each other. This is necessary for the new app, because it doesn’t have the device manufacturers on board, so can’t use the low level functionality in that way. It could have used Bluetooth, but it couldn’t use Bluetooth always on in the background, hidden, watching for other devices.

    Not only is the location data nowhere near as accurate, thus making it far more prone to false positives or missed meetings, it uses far more power, will use data (not good if you’re not on an unlimited plan) to send the location and poses a massive privacy and security risk.

    In conclusion: **** no, I’m not downloading it.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
    BarnsleyReds, May 5, 2020
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  7. Sparky

    Sparky Well-Known Member

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    No...the app is being developed by Marc Warner a freind of Cummings and who is under investigation for the vote leave campaign...jobs for the boys
     
    Sparky, May 5, 2020
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  8. ark

    ark104 (v2) Well-Known Member

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    But regardless of whether it's the best app it could have been isn't it a better alternative than remaining in lockdown? I see no other way to get the R rate down below 1 without track and trace involving an app.
     
    ark104 (v2), May 5, 2020
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  9. Don

    Donks Well-Known Member

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    Well you’ve successfully talked me out of it.
     
    Donks, May 5, 2020
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  10. fir

    fired Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Does leaving the Bluetooth open compromise the security of your phone?
     
    fired, May 5, 2020
    #10
  11. Gravy Chips

    Gravy Chips Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the general idea of it, but I wouldn't trust Cummings with anything and the app has his paws all over it. The bloke is literally already in trouble for a data scandal.
     
    Gravy Chips, May 5, 2020
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  12. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I have a huge problem with this app. Yes its a really important tool in controlling the spread of CV-19 but we (again) are following a different approach to the rest of the world
    everyone else is using the decentralised version but we are using the centralised version - difference here
    [​IMG]

    So the government is using the centralised version where they get all the data - they assure us that its safely controlled and cant be used for other purposes
    article here - its worth reading even if it is on a government website
    https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/blog-post/security-behind-nhs-contact-tracing-app

    But I have several serious concerns
    1. I dont trust this govermnent - their track record of telling lies is staggering
    2. they are using a different approach to the rest of the world who are basing it on Apple and Googles tools which makes it a problem for us when we start travelling again (though that can probably be mitigated by say downloading the EU app if we go to France say )
    3.The people behind the App worked for Cambridge Analitica- and appear to have been awarded the contract for this app with no tendering to anyone else -
    4. No commitment from the government to delete the data afterwards

    some good stuff in this twitter thread - I cant vouch for the accuracy of the replies use your judgement - by the way the Italians initially went for a centralised approach but then changed their minds after a lot of pressure

     
    Farnham_Red, May 5, 2020
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  13. Brush

    Brush Well-Known Member

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    There was an American woman on Radio 5 earlier saying that she and the app developer community didn't think the app was good enough. Received quite a bit of xenophobic comments from listeners. Although I used to be in IT, I only ever got involved with developing an app for Android once so I really couldn't comment on it but would trust her verdict and the points made by BarnsleyReds above certainly support what she said. Apparently only the UK and France have opted for an app which centralises the data as described by BarnsleyReds, all other countries in Europe are going for the non-centralised version.
     
    Brush, May 5, 2020
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  14. Brush

    Brush Well-Known Member

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    France have gone the same way as the UK.....
     
    Brush, May 5, 2020
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  15. BarnsleyReds

    BarnsleyReds Well-Known Member

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    My opinion has now changed as more information has been revealed to me about this app. I do not know if the app was changed, or I received some bad information, but I apologise to all.
    My new post is here

    TLDR: I will be downloading the app if I go out.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    The way the app should have been done is through BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy), which is different to normal bluetooth. That's the way Google and Apple were going to do it. The new app, from what I understand, doesn't use Bluetooth, at least not for tracking, but uses Location.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
    BarnsleyReds, May 5, 2020
    #15
  16. ark

    ark104 (v2) Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate it might not be ideal, but to be proportionate we are currently letting the government effectively put us under house arrest (purposefully over-dramatic I admit) but then won't accept them having some bland information on where we've been. Ironically meaning we have to remain under a far more invasion of civil rights scenario of lockdown.

    Without track and trace more peolke will die, pressure will remain on the NHS won't cease, and the economy will be ruined.
     
    ark104 (v2), May 5, 2020
    #16
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  17. BarnsleyReds

    BarnsleyReds Well-Known Member

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    My opinion has now changed as more information has been revealed to me about this app. I do not know if the app was changed, or I received some bad information, but I apologise to all.
    My new post is here

    TLDR: I will be downloading the app if I go out.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    No, by downloading the app you are giving all your location data to a centralised government server. That should not be accepted and is not necessary.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
    BarnsleyReds, May 5, 2020
    #17
  18. BarnsleyReds

    BarnsleyReds Well-Known Member

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    My opinion has now changed as more information has been revealed to me about this app. I do not know if the app was changed, or I received some bad information, but I apologise to all.
    My new post is here

    TLDR: I will be downloading the app if I go out.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    If the public and media do not accept the app, they will have to go and make a new one. One that doesn't have glaring security holes in it.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
    BarnsleyReds, May 5, 2020
    #18
  19. ark

    ark104 (v2) Well-Known Member

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    Again, to be proportionate, we haven't left the house for 6 weeks because of COVID_19. We've accepted that and done it. But we're not prepared to allow a server know where we've been to allow us to ease lockdown, reduce strain on the NHS, and save lives?
     
    ark104 (v2), May 5, 2020
    #19
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  20. BarnsleyReds

    BarnsleyReds Well-Known Member

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    My opinion has now changed as more information has been revealed to me about this app. I do not know if the app was changed, or I received some bad information, but I apologise to all.
    My new post is here

    TLDR: I will be downloading the app if I go out.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Again, I won't be installing government issued malware onto my phone.

    They need to go back to the drawing board and come out with something that does the job it's supposed to do.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
    BarnsleyReds, May 5, 2020
    #20
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