Boris joins the 'OUT' gang

Re: well I have for a long time thought that getting out was the best thing.

There are good arguments on both sides. There is clear evidence that leaving will cost the UK money. That's the main advantage of voting to remain, you know where we stand, and if you're content then vote in

Voting out is a leap into the unknown. The US don't want us to. China don't want us to. The EU doesn't want us to. Major businesses don't want us to. but it's a case of taking back sovereignty. It's a chance to shape our own future. As soon as it looks like Britain will leave Heaven and Earth will be moved to keep us in. If we vote out then the real negotiation will begin, not this irrelevant deal Cameron has cooked up. Trade deals will be arranged. Treaties will be signed. The EU itself might completely alter. Nobody knows what it will look like, we couldn't possibly, because until the chips are down we won't see what they're prepared to offer us. Court cases settled in Britain rather than the ECHR? Control over our own territorial waters? It'd be up to us to make our own way.

 

Referendum

 

Re: well I have for a long time thought that getting out was the best thing.

As prime minister, I dont think he can vote for anything else but to stop in, because it would it would wreck the little personal bargaining power he has with the other countries, if the country voted in. The rest such as Osbourne are just self serving toadies, who don't want to rock the boat on their careers.

 

The problem with Johnson is he's only gone for out to strengthen his future bid for Tory leader.

We aren't treated fairly is purely subjective. Other countries have shown ways to "bend" the rules but they have the political will s D we don't. Unless it's the banks.

Furthermore we behave as though we are summat special and were not.

 

Re: well I have for a long time thought that getting out was the best thing.

The mind positively boggles !!we're doomed if everybody bases their vote on that premise, people have got to try to get to as many facts as possible no matter how hard it proves not just ooohhh the fkin Tories are horrible.

 

Re: well I have for a long time thought that getting out was the best thing.

Sorry blivy but how can you trust any politician withany decision, they only do what's right for themselves, not for us. This is the time the public truly can decide ...

 

I worked in the steel industry and it was constant moaning at the EU saying we weren't on a level playing field and it was being driven into the ground because we couldn't compete with the rest of Europe.
Europe flooded our markets with European cars, long gone are the British cars who had to cheapen the manufacturing process to compete.
Because manufacturing has had **** knocked out of it the government snuggled up to the banks and financial world. Now it seems Cameron is shitting himself because the banks are ready to bog off meaning we will have to get manufacturing again.

 

Re: well I have for a long time thought that getting out was the best thing.

Your average politician knows far more than your average person about Europe. They're in a much better decision to make an informed decision.

I don't buy into this idea that they're just in it for themselves. I know a lot of people who go into politics to try and make a difference. I'm struggling to see how a vote to leave or remain in the EU could be seen as a vote just to better their own livelihood. Whatever the result it's going to affect the country as a whole and generally we'll either all be better off for it or all worse off. I've no idea which is the right choice as like 99.9% of voters I don't know all the arguments for and against and on balance which is the right decision. I don't feel informed enough to trust myself to vote the correct way.

 

Maybe your grandchildren can speak for themselves and have a view that differs from yours?

 

Re: well I have for a long time thought that getting out was the best thing.

All this.

I'm being asked to make a decision that will affect our country and all the inhabitants for years to come. I'm not in a position to be able to do that. I've read a number of fair and reasoned arguments from both sides of the debate, delivered by extremely well educated people on the subject (and lorry loads of ***** from others who are even less well informed than I am) and, to be honest, I've absolutely no idea what the right thing to do is. I can't imagine that will change between now and June, even if I spend every waking hour reading up on the subject. I vote that plebs like me shouldn't be given a vote on such a complex issue.

 

Re: well I have for a long time thought that getting out was the best thing.

I know a number of politicians, they vary (in all parties) in my opinion, from shameless chancers, to people who, like you say, do want to make a difference. The big snag is the whip system that the major parties employ...it can force Elected Members to toe the party line when they know it is against their principles. It takes a lot of courage to come out against that line (I'm not including Boris Johnson in this)...they know they can be deselected, and in the chancers case, be out of a paid job....the good ones know they can no longer make a difference on other issues they passionately care about.
In view of Party pressures we cannot trust the politicians to make that decision...only a free vote by the people.

 

FFS Make a ****in decision and stick by it work towards a better future for yourselves and our country stop listening to ***** from FB ****ers
Better out

 

Re: well I have for a long time thought that getting out was the best thing.

Will you all stop making such reasoned and valid points, I'm all over the place.

Good post.

 

Vote Out.

But then sort the Isle of Man out and stop it being a tax haven.

 

Everybody needs to check their vacuum cleaners before the end of the year. The EU directive that dropped the maximum wattage to 1600w is due to drop the maximum to 900w by 2017. Just need to grind Dyson into the ground then we can be flooded with Bosch.

 

Re: Referendum

 

It's not a tax haven , urban myth that, in fact at this time the laws on money laundering in the financial sector are very strict and transparency is important. We do obviously pay less tax . But the standard of living is higher house prices etc are expensive.

 

I never knew politicians actually HAD an "area of expertise"...

...which is why most of them ARE politicians!! Certainly those who become Education Secretaries know s*d all about Education, Those who become Health Ministers know s*d all about the NHS (except how to dismantle it) Transport Ministers know..... ad infinitum.

Wouldn't let most of them run my bath! Too many are ideology driven or put Party or personal interests before Country.

 

You'd not have to throw old ones away it only applies to new

Aren't Dyson's made abroad anyway?

 

Malaysia.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1801909.stm

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...ing-3-billion-empire-home-UK-stint-Malta.html