Brexit End Game.

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Jimmy viz, Jul 29, 2019.

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  1. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Jimmy viz, Jul 29, 2019
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  2. LiverpoolRed

    LiverpoolRed Well-Known Member

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    Final nail in union's coffin .....
     
    LiverpoolRed, Jul 29, 2019
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  3. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    Of course it was obvious from the start. That is what makes the support for brexit in former Labour strongholds so unfathomable. People may have been "left behind" but Brexit as sure as hell is not going to help them catch up. What exactly are we going to sell to America, China or India without lowering food and goods standards or offering cheaper Labour costs? We can't know just how many Tory fortunes are set to profit from American entryism into our markets for goods and services, but the Cameron family's off-shoring offers a clue. And closet brexiteers at the head of the Labour Party only assist the Tories' evil game.
     
    orsenkaht, Jul 30, 2019
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  4. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget the opportunity for the Tories to get rid of the NHS. They've tried for 70 years to destroy it, and now the opportunity has been handed to them by the people that need it the most.
     
    Scoff, Jul 30, 2019
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  5. gri

    grimeypit Active Member

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    You can tell anyone this and explain the above in leave areas like Barnsley and it just comes back to 'send em back' or 'Islamification of Britain.'

    Nobody is arguing that the EU is perfect by any stretch but it's a lot better than any tory Brexit/no deal.

    People have short memories. It was the EU that saved Grimethorpe, invested in many other areas of Barnsley and in projects.

    I put to leave voters, what have the tories done for you?
     
    grimeypit, Jul 30, 2019
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  6. Vesp77

    Vesp77 Well-Known Member

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    Brexit obviously transcends party politics. In my experience it's down to wealth and intelligence. The people who voted for Brexit are:
    • Those who have enough assets not to be affected.
    • Those who have limited intellect and don't understand how they'll be affected.
    Spoke to lots of people about Brexit and I can honestly say everyone I've talked to who voted for brexit falls into one (or both) of the camps mentioned above.

    Labour supporters who voted for Brexit have essentially voted to trade away our NHS and kill workers rights, the things they supposedly hold dearest...cos they're too thick to care or rich enough to not give a ****.
     
    Vesp77, Jul 30, 2019
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  7. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that the whole project has been steered around any rational or truthful debate. The EU is an easy target - particularly when it is personified as a single, evil ogre designed to steal precious UK sovereignty. In reality it is a collection of 28(7) states who have agreed a common set of rules that safeguard the interests of all member states. It is painted as undemocratic, whereas it's political office holders are either directly elected (Parliament, Council) or appointed by those we have directly elected (Commission). Contrast that with our own monarchy or upper chamber. It is claimed we can strike bold, new, ambitious trade deals as a nation of 65M population/$2.5 Trn GDP, whereas within the EU we are part of a bloc with 550M / $16 Trn GDP. It is claimed we cannot make our own laws, whereas we have an equal voice and representation within the structures and have, across our membership we have raised any objection to only 2% of all proposed EU legislation. But as I say, such logic appeals little to the brexiteers, largely for the reasons folks have set out above.

    Boris is not too fussed whether we get a new deal or not. If we do he will be portrayed as having triumphed over the EU oppressors. If not he will say the EU is intransigent and that Parliament (if no deal is blocked) have usurped the will of the people. He will storm back into power because of the lack of any thinking analysis of the situation and because of his populist appeal. It is a depressing prospect. But the backwash will probably be worse than anything Thatcher inflicted once he has opened the door to the lunatic in the White House.
     
    orsenkaht, Jul 30, 2019
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  8. lk3

    lk311 Well-Known Member

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    Wonder how many of you actually read the article?
    So the new guy didn’t agree with a previous policy, yet his new boss spoke in Parliament about enhancing workers rights and people jump to end of world scenario.

    I’m not defending either side here just saying for balance the opposite was stated by the new PM for those who never read the article.
     
    lk311, Jul 30, 2019
    #8
  9. Sopwith Camel

    Sopwith Camel Well-Known Member

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    Project fear is alive and well. And believed by the beleavers ..
    Those that have been abused.. still running to their abuses for protection.
     
    Sopwith Camel, Jul 30, 2019
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  10. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    We shall see.

    In the meantime, what do you say to Mr outdoorminer's question:

    "I put to leave voters, what have the tories done for you?"
     
    orsenkaht, Jul 30, 2019
    #10
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  11. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    I think the latter sentence is telling. In just days, there have been numerous contradictory comments and statements from our new unelected peacock.

    We want a deal, we don't want a deal, we want to unify the UK and GFA is important to adhere to, we'll impose direct rule over NI. We wont lower standards, first priority for international trade secretary is a deal with US.

    Expect more glib lies that contradict over the coming days and weeks.

    I'm now absolutely sure he's angling for a GE.

    Only people I recall using "Australian points based system" for any period was Farage. Yet Johnson used it almost immediately. His efforts to coax northern voters with a Crossrail project also seems very targeted. A few Labour Brexit voters who haven't shifted party and a moderate shift from Farage to conservative and I think with Labour in Brexit no mans land, the inconceivable notion of a Boris Johnson 5 year term could well materialise.
     
    DannyWilsonLovechild, Jul 30, 2019
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  12. thetykester

    thetykester Well-Known Member

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    Al have some of that.
     
    thetykester, Jul 30, 2019
    #12
  13. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    I have been in conferences where Patel as stated very openly that she sees brexit as an opportunity to remove workers rights. I am no great advocate of The EU but you need to wake up to what a hard right tory brexit wil mean for you and your family.
     
    Jimmy viz, Jul 30, 2019
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  14. thetykester

    thetykester Well-Known Member

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    Paid holiday leave, booosh gone

    The right to appeal unfair dismissal , booosh gone.

    The safety of workers, boooooosh gone.

    Being treated like $hit, here you go.

    Work when your told to work, here you go.

    And then some.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
    thetykester, Jul 30, 2019
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  15. man

    mansfield_red Well-Known Member

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    Priti Patel is awful. I see she now wants to rewrite immigration laws into a format which, if in force at the time, may have prevented her parents from coming to the country.

    She also co-authored the book Britannia Unchained with 4 other Tories (including Raab, Truss and Kwarteng) which described British workers as the most idle in the world and advocated the slashing of workers' rights and the welfare state.
     
    mansfield_red, Jul 30, 2019
    #15
  16. Tarntyke

    Tarntyke Well-Known Member

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    The Tory right is now truly running riot.I fear they will win an impending GE, their propaganda machine is only just gaining a bit of momentum (no pun intended) All these empty promises/rhetoric by Boris and co. will hoodwink enough support for another term in office and will no doubt see the ‘eventual ‘Americanisation’ of well basically most things. Have nice day Ya’ll
     
    Tarntyke, Jul 30, 2019
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  17. arabian_ian

    arabian_ian Well-Known Member

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    A GE looks a very real possibility. But I'm not convinced the tories would win it without support from others. DUP and libdems spring to mind.
    Unfortunately I can't see Corbyn working with the SNP who are predicted to wipe the tories out here. Gavin Essler talked the other day of SNP winning all seats here except Orkney and Shetland who are Libdems.
     
    arabian_ian, Jul 30, 2019
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  18. Redhelen

    Redhelen Well-Known Member

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    I think he might in the right circumstances.
     
    Redhelen, Jul 30, 2019
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  19. arabian_ian

    arabian_ian Well-Known Member

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    I'm not so sure on that Helen. He is a pro unionist and a brexiteer. Which is polar opposite to SNP. He would have to do a bit of back tracking.
     
    arabian_ian, Jul 30, 2019
    #19
  20. JamDrop

    JamDrop Well-Known Member

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    Labour’s Brexit stance is clear. They want a 2nd ref in all circumstances. If they win a GE they will try and improve the deal with their different red lines and then they will put their deal and Remain to the public.

    To me, Lib Dem’s stance is unclear. I know they want to Remain but if they win a GE, then what? Will they immediately revoke A50, despite the fact Leave won, or will they have a 2nd ref. If they have a ref, what are we voting between? Obviously, Remain is on one side but what is on the other? May’s Deal? Boris’ potential deal? No Deal? And then let’s say Leave wins again, is she going to Revoke A50 anyway and prompt a civil war or will they deliver Brexit? Or will they quit and call another GE? If they do deliver Brexit, then what type? Presuming Boris won’t get a deal with similar red lines and they won’t want No Deal (hoping they didn’t call people’s bluff and go No Deal or Remain) then we’re stuck with May’s Deal that has already been voted down 3 times.

    So: vote Lib Dem, get either May’s Deal, No Deal or Remain depending on vote terms

    Vote Labour, get their deal or Remain

    Vote Tories, get Boris’ deal or No Deal

    Vote Brexit Party, get No Deal

    To me, voting Labour gives an extra choice between a less damaging Brexit and Remain so as someone who wants to Remain and someone who likes their social policies, I will be voting for them in any upcoming GE.
     
    JamDrop, Jul 30, 2019
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