Totally miffed wih the number of people on here who jump on the 'why aren't we getting bigger crowds' bandwagon. It strikes me that in all probability they are the younger element ie Prem/Post Prem supporters. Perhaps need a little history lesson?! Well guys - and girls - look in the record books and you will see that there has been various 'swings' over the last 40 years with BFC's support ranging from crowds of 2,000 in the 70s - up to 15,000 early 80s - 5,000 mid 80s, 11,000 mid 90s (promotion season) - 18,500 capacity crowds in Prem - and so on to the dark days of Div 1 7-8,000 at times during last few years. The thing that gauls me most is that there seems to be a popular and implied view that the typical Barnsleyite - who ought to be down watching the footy at Oakwell - has an ingrained fickleness that wouldn't be found amongst the residents of other towns and cities accross England. This is total BS!! The factors behind what crowds clubs get are too many to mention in entirity - but for starters please consider the towns population, it's geographical location in relation to other towns and cities which can reduce potential support, the town's limited economic wealth, the possible other leisure attractions in the vicinity and the often less than favourable - or non existent - media coverage both local and national. In Barnsley's case we average 10,000. When taking just the above factors into account then I wonder why there is such criticisim? Yes, we show at times that we can attract bigger crowds such as Wembley Finals, big derby games etc which no doubt raises expectations that we should get big crowds every game - but believe me, other than a few Prem clubs - WE ARE NO DIFFERENT IN THAT RESPSECT. The vast majority of clubS have supporters who are selective on games for a number of reasons eg work commitments, family commitments, financial reasons - and yes occassionally fickleness - but I have yet to see or read any evidence that such apathy is more prevelant in a person who comes from Barnsley than any other part of the country. Could we not perhaps - for a change - champion the people who turn up regular to the games - both home and away?- as opposed to the negative - and all too easy - option which is constantly slagging off the so called 'missing fans'? Rant over - feel better now
"Wembley crowds" I've been to both play-off finals, with girlfriend, mum and dad in tow. All three just wanted to watch the emotions I was going through over 90 (or 120) minutes of football - none of them have any intention of going to a league game. I'm sure many other Reds fans had the same experience with a large aprt of the attendance being family members, not 'floating voters'. I remember watching us thrash Portsmouth 4-0 in front of 4,000 fans. Now I can only get to two or three games a season but with the attendances we've had this season I'd say they were only slightly lower than what they should be, not several thousand.
I don't think it's a case of not championing the real supporters or those who travel to away games.</p> We all want to see our local team do well - it's our pride and joy. I also think we should accept that Barnsley Football Club reached an important stage in its history ten years ago when it won promotion to the Premiership. It gave us both capacity crowds and voiciferous support. In a way, many of us hoped we wouldn't look back.</p> The three seasons following relegation from the prem still saw good crowds, and in some ways very decent performances, resulting in nearly a second brush with the Prem.</p> Since then, relegation, administration and all the ugly things that go with it, saw us almost at rock bottom. But there's a new energy in BFC, and promotion back to the Championship was part of that. Excellent football, good management and very careful handling are paying dividends, and for the time being at least we are on the up.</p> But if that is to succeed, we need to attract at least the people who were coming to games in the 98-01 period, when we were regularly hitting the 15K+ mark. Given the standard of football, the opposition, the exciting players etc., I don't think it unreasonable that we should be asking what has happened to those people and why they aren't coming back.</p>
Yeah, it's expensive, but It is just as expensive, or even more expensive, at other clubs. I reckon we are among the cheapest clubs compared to our league position. I we all stopped moaning when we lose a game and consistently praised the players who have now proved themselves over enough games for us to accept they are a good team, win, draw or lose, perhaps we would manage to convince some stay-aways. Rule 1: If you never go to a match, you will never have to endure the bad ones, but you'll never enjoy the good ones. Rule 2: If you go to every match, you'll never miss a good one. Nuff said?
I think a lot of people stayed for the 98-99 season (and possibly the one after) as they were the prem first timers, season ticket wise, and : a. Got swept up in the 'on loan to the nationwide' thing and thought we'd be straight back up. b. Were worried that IF we did go back up they would struggle to get a ticket if they gave it up. When it became obvious that it wasn't going to happen then they were gone, never to come back (until we get back to the prem, in which case they will mention how they were season tickets holders before). i.e. they were only ever interested in Prem Barnsley, not Barnsley. I know this is a reasonable assumption, as I know of 2 people, one of which used to come to games with me, and one with my mate, for whom the above scenario is true.
Nevertheless I think 13K a game ought to be attainable in this division. And dont give that small town ***** because thats just what it is. The population density of Barnsley borough is comparable to that of Sheffield and we are 9 miles from the largest city in the country bart a professional team not to mention Castleford, Pontefract, Hemsworth, Wath etc. We are not realising our potential in this league but that is not simply the fickle fans, though there are thousands that fully deserve the classification. The club do piss all active marketing to try and get even former customers to return let alone get new ones to come along. I know at least 8 recent non attending season ticket holders who may just need a bit of encouragement from the club to get back. I must give credit to the clubs recent juvenile pricing strategy which will in time reap benefits but they need to do much more. I agree with Mort in the fact that football is too expensive especially for the family or students though I dont think you'll see mort at oakwell unless it was less than the cost of 6 litres of Frosty Jacks...
Totally agree DSL - and that's why you have to look back at Barnsley's history - as I tried to point out. It's also why the history needs viewing in both footballing and economic terms. To get gates of 15,000 it's only going to happen March/April time and then only if we are more or less guaranteed a play off spot with a good chance of automatic. The fairweather fans who want a taste of the big time will slowly but surely come back if this happens. No doubt we will then go to the othe extreme of boasting how well supported we are! Fot those still not convinced then look at the attandance patterns during the Prem promotion seaosn. It was only the last few games tha they started to get anywhere near 15,000. PS - Uncle Mort - read my mail - did I not say economic reasons are a factor why people will not attend as opposed to some ingrained fickless? I also said the list of reasons wasn't exhaustive. No offence meant of course.
to be honest, I cant afford it. Well i can but to the detremental effect of my other pastime. Which I'd rather do regardles sof how sad i may be to you and your chums
cost of entry in 2002/3 £14 including early discount. 2007/8 over £20. Football is pricing itself out of the reach of parents who would like to take their kids to an occasional match. £60 for 90mins of entertainment for 2 adults and 2 kids compares with say £25 to go to the pictures. </p> More of a worry to Football league clubs should be the pricing policy of some of the less fashionable Prem clubs who because of the level of TV money are starting to reduce their season ticket/gate prices. If (and heaven forbid) Wednesday were promoted and managed to stay up for a few seasons, they could afford to undercut all the FL clubs in area. Now that wouldn't affect most people on here but people coming into the area ? or little 'Jimmy' at school ' Dad take me to football, no not Barnsley, let's watch Wednsday, they're playing Man U tomorrow and Arsenal next week ' errrrr... SMACK..... that was the Dad's reaction !!</p> BTW good post Disco</p>
I understand everthing you say but then you also need to accept why it is inevitable that players will leave in January. we are a relatively small club supporters wise and will always find it difficult to hang onto our better players.
People should have a better understanding of business then, shouldn't they? 2 very, very simple, but definitely not exclusive elements of business: A season is not based over 5/6 months. That's forecasting. If you expect 'new' customers because you have something shiney and new that might appeal to them, you really have to show them more of it and tempt them to buy. That's marketing. BFC are doing a fantastic job and I'm sure the club is achieving in line with expectations and its fan base is in line with expectations. They need to keep the balance right and assess the risks appropriately. I have no doubt they are doing that. If we sell players in January it's because it makes financial sense, not because we were always planning to sell, unless another 5 thousand fans suddenly appeared. That would be bolox. You'd have to invest **** loads into marketing to add 50% to the gate. Fans expectations are generally the ones not in line with reality. That said, I think the community day has been poorly planned and if it is a success, well done to the Supporters Trust.
RE: I understand everthing you say Absolutely, we are a selling club. Many clubs are the same that's the way it will always be unless we ever get backed by someone with mega-bucks. There's nothing really wrong with this approach, it's just the way it is largely due to the reasons that Disco Tyke listed in his initial post.
If we are up there come March, April, then the crowds will come back, but it is expensive watching modern day football. The FA computer has a lot to blame for smaller crowds, the fixture list at the start of the season puts 2or 3 consecutive home matches( cup games included) in a week. This puts financial pressure on even the loyalist fans, and while some clubs come up with ways to help the fans by cutting match day prices, people put modern day expenses before a football match. And let me just comment on the PR at Barnsley FC to attract these stay-away fans, two words, hardly nothing. How many of us use to listen to Radio Sheffield for interviews with the players , manager, the chairman and the backroom staff. To get a feel on what's going on within our club, to listen to the match commentary on how great the team is playing. This interne will arouse the stayaway fans. The higher echelons of the football club should be shouting to the world on how BarnsleyFC are playing and take every possible means to promote the club to the media. But the silence is deafening, and until this dispute is settled the majority of stayaway fans will know nothing. just my thoughts.
The consensus of opinion on here when I asked a few weeks ago was that a reduction in the ticket price would pretty much solve the problem. its £15 on Sat, and £4 for under 11s, lets see what happens.
It takes a concerted effort to get folks back on a regular basis not a one off gesture every 2 months. You need to get people back into the habit. Nevertheless I expect an extra 2k.
How many more times do I have to spell this out? Radio Sheffield made an insulting first and final offer for match coverage which was more than 3 times less than they are paying another club in the region. They were told no and until they change their punative stance, its not going to happen. Besides, last time the subject of radio coverage was mentioned it was regarding their biased coverage and John Pearson being a c#.t. The direction of travel is to broadcast over the web, and we dont need Radio Sheffield for that. Deafening silence my arse.
