Crowd behaviour at football - when did things change?

In light of the weekends events in the Hillsborough concourse, the chants and damage to seats in the recent past, its the first time in my experience of watching Barnsley (from 80/81) that I'm feeling that there is a definite concerted decline in supporter behaviour. I'm sure this would apply at most clubs?

Genuine question - was there genuinely a time when rival supporters could freely mix before, during and after a match, inside and outside the ground? When did this change and why? Was it a general society trigger, something political or a cocktail of things?

Part of me is genuinely saddened by what is happening, irrespective of the embarrassment and anger others have articulated. I genuinely don't get the tribal aggressive behaviour that seems to surround football and other sports, I'd like to think I'd be able to sit down in a pub in any town or city on a match day with a rival supporter, which has been the case on many occasions to be fair, without fear. It's pathetic isn't it, nearly 45 years old and mentioning the word fear about a day out at football.

Interested in people's thoughts.

 

Could I suggest you type football violence/football hooliganism 1980s into Youtube. Or you could go for specifics like Luton v Mullwall '85 or Heysel or Ireland v England '95, there's an almost endless list to choose from.

My opinion, which encompasses almost the same period, I started going just a few seasons before you, is that supporter behaviour has improved dramatically over this time.

Unless I've misunderstood, in which case apologies.

 

I'd say a steady improvement until 4 or 5 years ago, gradual decline since.

 

I tend to agree mate, overall during that period there was a huge improvement, just seems in more recent years there's been a decline. Possibly having kids of my own makes me more sensitive to any disturbance. I'm really looking further back, maybe as far back as the post war era through to the 80s and the present day. Pathe News footage seems to indicate harmony between rivals, I can't offer a view from that period, but if it was as good as it seemed, when did it change, why did it change?

 

When I first started attending games (1965/66 season) in the first half the fans of both teams stood behind the goal being attacked by their team. At half time, both sets of fans would change ends. That was fine for a few seasons, but eventually the scraps on the half way line became so bad that the practice was stopped. Things rapidly went down hill after that.

 

Never really gone away - just took place at organised meets away from grounds. Seems to be creeping back in


Not as bad as it was in the 80's though- saw some pretty hairy moments then

 

I was recently reading an article on this topic a couple of weeks ago. Up to the late
1960's it was apparently quite commonplace for rival fans to walk down to the ground
together and sit in the same areas of the ground together.

The situation changed in 1967, when Manchester United fans descended on Upton Park
in greater numbers than had been anticipated and violent clashes ensued.

Man Utd were apparently chasing the League title and it was claimed that many Hammers fans
took exception to United supporters having a presence in all areas of their stadium.

Football was definitely becoming more tribal and the hooligans used the game as cover to
fight with rival supporters. It was therefore inevitable that the powers that be, would be forced
to introduce segregation and where they anticipated that violence might break out, that police
would have to be used to chaperone away fans to the ground and then back to their transport.

 

The 70's and 80's were violent. It turned round after Hillsborough when the authorities stopped treating fans like animals - so they stopped behaving like it.

I've been attending Oakwell for 20 years now and it's been more or less problem free, but I can confirm that there's a downward spiral right now. I don't know who to blame, but it'll take action to curb it.

 

In my experience.
Football hooliganism has generally gone down.
Barnsley hooliganism has generally gone up.

Barnsley was always behind the times in a lot of ways - including hooliganism.
I’m not in the know - and don’t go to many away matches - but I still see that hooliganism in Barnsley is lagging behind in a couple of areas.
1) It doesn’t seem to be as organised as other clubs. You don’t see Barnsley supporters as a unit attacking opposing fans in pubs or near the ground.
2) Barnsley supporters haven’t got that togetherness that I’ve seen from other clubs when faced with a threat. For example Barnsley supporters don’t naturally group together if approached. Barnsley groups tend to peal off and do their own thing.

 

The more of your posts I read the more I desperately hope you're just a wind up.

 

Segregation of fans happened before my time, I always thought it was early 70s but it may have been before.

I don't mind fan segregation. I like the rivalry. I like that all the fans of one club being together so a lot of noise can be made. I like to be celebrate wildly; if I was in close proximity to opposition fans it would feel rude and disrespectful. I like (some) terrace humour and the songs about opposition fans/players. Ronnie Moore and his hat will remain with me for the rest of my life. I also like talking to opposition fans and do so regularly when I go to away matches or in the No 7, but at the ground I like to be sat amongst Barnsley supporters (well, not all).

I guess I've been lucky that I haven't personally experienced some of the issues that are being discussed at the moment, but I can't remember the last time I felt unsafe going to a football match. I regularly thought I was going to get my f**king head kicked in (as the song went) during the 80s and 90s.

 

What I can't get in my head though Nudger is what rationale brings about threatening behaviour. I've been on the receiving end of violence once, after the first game of the season in 96/97 away at West Brom. Wasn't wearing colours, neither were the two mates I was with. My crime was walking back to the car having seen Barnsley win, and that "... I was taking the p!55 walking down there". Probably wrong place at the wrong time, but I've never left a football ground, or gone to one, with any inclination of picking a fight with anyone.

 

It still happens in non league, minus the scrapping of course! It’s one of the simple joys that make it worthwhile going to non league football

 

Nope.
Experience of being involved as a kid in the early 1970s through to the late 1980s - in the good old days when it was at its height - to studying and watching how it has developed now.
To the extent that I can walk into a boozer and sort of sense if it’s going to kick off.
And those lads from that era will know what I’m talking about here.

 

I can almost hear the disappointment in your voice...

 

Well two decades of getting your head kicked in explains a lot of your posts I guess.

 

Probably you can.
It’s called - getting older.
But one thing to realise - is that ALL football supporters of my own age group during that time were part of that scene.
You couldn’t escape from it back then - it was all part of going to a game.
You either got involved - or those not up to it learnt very quickly how NOT to get involved.
Most just got involved.

 

We aren't as behind as you make out - it still goes on but the development of cameras/ spotters etc has been a major factor in moving it away from crowded areas.

They don't do it now it front of the police but away from grounds. Couple of stops away from Barnsley especially with Leeds has been a feature of not too distant meet ups . Have a friend who has been on banning list - not with Barnsley - and he's told me quite a few things.

 

No, you just yearn for a simpler time when stuff annoyed you so you just twatted someone.

Admiring other clubs hooligans for being more organised than ours is just plain mental and I'm glad I don't know you.

 

Closest is accrington last year.

Their owner said something like treat people like animals and well....

It sounded a great success.

Done properly it can work.