Don Rowing: "we often don’t live in the real world"

http://www.romseyadvertiser.co.uk/sport/hampshiresport/4255650.Championship_rivals_hit_out_at_points_deduction_loophole/</p><h3>Saints relegation rivals hit out at Football League's administration loophole</h3>

THE ROW over whether Saints should be docked points has provoked an angry backlash from their relegation rivals. </p>

The club looks to have sensationally avoided the normal ten-point deduction faced by teams going into administration. </p>

Although Saints&rsquo; parent PLC company has today called in the administrators, the team&rsquo;s league position looks unlikely to be affected. </p>

&ldquo;The league rules are very specific, it has to be the club which goes into administration for points to be deducted,&rdquo; said a Football League spokesman. </p>

However, while the news is a major boost for Southampton their main relegation rival has hit out at the loophole allowing the club to escape the usual penalty for &ldquo;bad management&rdquo;. </p>

The club is currently sitting second-bottom in The Championship, two points below 17thplaced Plymouth Argyle. </p>

Saints would leapfrog the Devon club if it wins its game in hand. </p>

But if Southampton was penalised ten points, it would instantly slip to just two points ahead of bottom club Charlton Athletic, which already looks consigned to League One next season. </p>

Such is the controversy surrounding the situation, it is understood it will be discussed at the next meeting of Football League board. </p>

Last night, Barnsley FC&rsquo;s general manager Don Rowling said he believes it is wrong that clubs can use a parent company to escape penalties when things go wrong. </p>

&ldquo;I think it would be wrong for any football club in the lower reaches of the division to look to survive through another club&rsquo;s demise from off the pitch activities,&rdquo; he told the Daily Echo. </p>

&ldquo;Obviously, if Southampton did go into administration and was docked points we would probably breathe a little easier, but I think it would be morally wrong for clubs to look to benefit from that. </p>

&ldquo;But I do also think it&rsquo;s wrong that a parent company can be set up to run a football club and do what they want to do, and push into administration as it suits them, through bad management. </p>

&ldquo;And we are talking about bad management. A lot of clubs have suffered from that because in football we often don&rsquo;t live in the real world. </p>

&ldquo;But they do have a responsibility to shareholders and the company, to the Football League and to other clubs to run it in a proper manner.&rdquo; </p>

That view was shared by the many supporters of the clubs currently in a dogfight at the foot of the Championship. </p>

Steve Bailey, secretary of Charlton Athletic Supporters&rsquo; Club, said: &ldquo;We do not like to point fingers at other clubs in these situations, which are a sad indictment of these times. </p>

&ldquo;As far as the relegation fight is concerned we could do with Southampton being docked ten points but to be honest it doesn&rsquo;t really affect us because we&rsquo;d still have too much to do, even if we beat Southampton on Saturday. </p>

&ldquo;That&rsquo;s a far bigger game for us than it is for Southampton.&rdquo; </p>

Paul Ellis, chairman of Nottingham Forest Supporters Club, said: &ldquo;I suppose, from a selfish point of view, I would say that seems a bit sneaky &ndash; that&rsquo;s probably how most Forest fans would think. </p>

&ldquo;But if that&rsquo;s the way round it then that&rsquo;s the way round it. </p>

&ldquo;But it does seem to go against the spirit of what the rules were put in place for. </p>

&ldquo;I think if we weren&rsquo;t in the position we are, I would say &lsquo;Well done and I hope they can sort themselves out. </p>

&ldquo;At the moment we are all battling at the bottom of the Championship for our lives and anything that helps us to stay up is welcome. </p>

&ldquo;But I&rsquo;m hoping we can do it without relying on a points deduction. </p>

&ldquo;I hate all these things going to court, like the Sheffield United and West Ham thing. </p>

&ldquo;Football&rsquo;s gone more in the direction of big business, law cases and courts, as opposed to just playing the sport.&rdquo; </p>

Kathy Blake, secretary of the Norwich City Independent Supporters&rsquo; Association, said: &ldquo;To be honest, I don&rsquo;t like to see this sort of thing happen to any club. </p>

&ldquo;I think there have been some outrageous decisions in the past, particularly if you look at clubs like Luton. </p>

&ldquo;It really does make you wonder as well when you look at the debts the top four clubs in the Premier League are carrying. </p>

&ldquo;As far as a deduction for Southampton goes I can see it running and running, because it doesn&rsquo;t appear to be something that is straightforward. </p>

&ldquo;I can see lawsuits and almost another Carlos Tevez situation arising. </p>

&ldquo;But if you&rsquo;re asking me if I&rsquo;m pleased about it, then no, I am not. </p>

&ldquo;I would much rather see it all decided by what happens on the pitch.&rdquo; </p>

David Marshall, chairman of the Plymouth Argyle Supporters&rsquo; Club, said: &ldquo;Personally, I would like to see Southampton stay up, because it&rsquo;s a local derby virtually for us, so I hope both of us can survive. </p>

&ldquo;The trouble is that all the financial people know how to bend the rules to suit themselves. </p>

&ldquo;Us mere mortals, the supporters, just see what&rsquo;s on the pitch. </p>

&ldquo;You hear what&rsquo;s going on financially, but you can&rsquo;t have a bearing on it. </p>

&ldquo;I would like to see Southampton stay in the Championship as much as us. </p>

&ldquo;It&rsquo;s much nicer to see things decided on the pitch.&rdquo; </p>

Frances Lynn, board member of the Watford Supporters&rsquo; Trust, said: &ldquo;Watford are in a similar situation in being run by a holding company. </p>

&ldquo;In looking at our situation, I would have thought that if Watford Leisure went into administration this would be the same as the football club going into administration in all but name. </p>

&ldquo;Southampton Leisure Holdings is a similar organisation so I am at a loss to see how if this company goes into administration the football club can escape sanctions. </p>

&ldquo;It seems to me that, yet again, a loophole is being exploited by a &lsquo;bigger&rsquo; club in a way that would not be allowed for a club further down the league. </p>

Although, saying that, I find the increasing trend for league places to be decided on these grounds disturbing. </p>

&ldquo;To my mind, the benefits to Southampton of going into administration would accrue next season, so I believe that the points deduction should be applied then whatever the outcome of this season&rsquo;s competition.&rdquo; </p>

Martyn Kellett, secretary of Derby County&rsquo;s city supporters&rsquo; branch, said: &ldquo;We&rsquo;re not in a position to throw stones but it&rsquo;s very unfair on the fans of all those other clubs that have been docked points. Although anything could happen between now and the end of the season, I&rsquo;m confident we&rsquo;ll stay up anyway.&rdquo; </p>

Alan Bloore, Barnsley Supporters&rsquo; Trust chairman, said: &ldquo;As vice president of the Football Supporters Federation and a Barnsley fan, I come at this from two angles. </p>

&ldquo;The FSF does not agree with a points deduction for clubs going into administration. </p>

Our standpoint is that directors of the company should be financially penalised and banned. </p>

&ldquo;But as a Barnsley fan I believe what is right for one club is right for another. </p>

Luton, Rotherham and Bournemouth were docked points for going into administration so the same should apply to Southampton, even if it is the holding company that has gone into administration. After all, that is still attached to the football club. </p>

Southampton seem to have found a loophole but that is not fair on those other clubs.&rdquo; </p>

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Are Alan Bloore`s 2 angles both obtuse?

 

Barnsley as a club

cannot talk about the rights and wrongs of docked points for administration or mis-management of football clubs due to recent history. Okay the current management weren't around back then but still, they represent a club that did fall into administration and weren't docked points.

Does seem a bit of a fiddle, this holding company though. We all understand what the spirit of the ruling was.

 

Is he Vice Chairman of the FSF?

He never mentions it....

 

At the time we went into administration there was no rule

regarding points deduction. There are now rules to prevent this happening. Southampton know the rules they are trying any method to circumvent them. I don't blame them for this, I just hope they are unsucessful.

 

RE: Is he Vice Chairman of the FSF?

Chortling.

 

on sky sports news now, concerns they won't play out the season nt

 

Don Rowing talking about 'Bad Management'.. well he has a fine example right here at Oakwell

SimpleSimon

 

True

but I still think the club are in no position to comment. They were just "fortunate" enough to get it over with back in the day.

 

RE: on sky sports news now, concerns they won't play out the season nt

If that actually happened and their games were null and void, we would only lose ONE point. What would other relegation rivals lose?

I can't see it happening though

 

Don Rowing can go forth and sh*te.</p>

 

thing is the admin spokesman was on saying the holding company going under

will mean substantial financial implications to the football club.
surely that means they are hand in hand.

 

what do you mean?

we would lose one point? if that is the case then surley the reverse hapens to Southampton and they lose ALL points.It cannot go one way and not the other. but again if they cannot play then they cannot gain points and so they are down anyways.

 

RE: what do you mean?

we only took 1 point off them, where others clubs around us could have taken more points off southampton

 

yes but.What I am also saying is this

If you take away the points from the clubs who have already played them, then surely by that same idea you must take away points Southampton gained therefor setting them on zero.That will certainly not happen.

 

If Southampton disappear then all their fixtures would

be reversed as if they hadn't been played. Therefore there would have effectively be only 23 clubs in the league this year and therefore only two teams would be relegated or 4 teams would be promoted from league 1 with a knock on effect down the leagues.</p>

not sure if that's what you were asking but it's my best 'guestimate'</p>

</p>

 

He's right

People that set up their clubs in a way to protect themselves if it all goes tits up are absolute cnuts.

Oakwell stadium is owned by barnsley football club isn't it? Right? I mean we didn't split the club from the assets in case it went wrong did we?

 

ahem

BFC effectively sold its assets to a third party to raise funds to pay off its debts and now rents the ground Not many football clubs ever owned their grounds and none had the area of land that was in BFC's ownership. Southampton have set up a holding company for the fooball clubs debts if I understand whats happened. Very different to us but hey, dont let the truth get in the way of a dig at BFC.

 

If

the ten point deduction had been a rule at the time, I doubt we would have ended up in admin for want of abart 750 grand because perhaps the rotten veg man might have accepted a deal he was allegedly offered by a certain wealthy man.

As a full member of the football league I think you'll find we have every right to comment and influence any decisions taken.

 

The FSF doesn't agree with clubs losing poitns for administration? How bizarre.